Uncle Shecky

Originally posted by Kajaro

... Dark Champions character whose power is Duplication. The color of his power is that he acts as a splitter in his own timestream.

 

Imagine everyone having a life path along a time continuum. Then imagine that this character has the power to stand in the center of his and split himself into 4 other simotanious clones.

 

As a side result from this interruption to his own timestream he ages slower and subsequently has lifesupport aging 200 year lifespan.

...

The concept sounds very similar to a villain from Omega Flight (a villain group in "Alpha Flight"): Flashback, a duplicator whose copies came from his own future. Flashback was royally screwed when somebody killed one of his future clones. He didn't know exactly when his copies came from, but he knew he was going to die very suddenly. Great name though.

Of the names mentioned so far, I really like Re-Run and Fourshadow. (I know you want him to make 4 duplicates, but you could use that name anyway--he has 4 "shadows"--or just give him 3 duplicates instead for the sake of a good name.)

Here are a few more ideas:

Tempus Fugitive (from tempus fugit--"time flies")

Forecast (or Fourcast)

Consequence

Clonesequence (conflation of clone and and consequence, accent on clone so it doesn't sound like "clone sequence")

Tomorrow Man

The Living Ancestor

Quintet (or Quartet)

The One Man Gang

Army of One

Portent

I've had a few duplicating characters: A Million in Juan (villianous duplicator from Puerto Rico) and Doublevais (a French brick, very similar to Deuce in "Champions of the North"). Naming them is the best part.

I don't think it is legal technically. For a +1/4 advantage you get to absorb an attack without taking any damage. Granted, it only works if you make the block, but that doesn't balance out the lack of any damage. Besides, there must be some damage to absorb, and there's no damage if you block.

You could simulate the same power by adding the Requires a Skill Roll limitation to your absorption, and buying a lot of extra defense linked to the absorption. The skill roll would represent the "block" (you could even allow DCV and opponents OCV to modify the roll, as with a normal block), while the extra defense would prevent you from taking too much damage. It would look like a block that allows you to absorb the attack, but it wouldn't bend the rules as much.

I'm not familiar with the way absorption works in V&V though, so this might not cover everything you want.

Originally posted by Hermit

...

Has anyone made a Vision type PC/NPC good guy to match the Ultron like Mechanon?

...

Glenn Thain made one a long time ago. AVAR-7, in Enemies, was a Vision rip-off (an android with density increase and desolidification). He was built by an alien civilization and sent to Earth to observe, using his abilities to blend in as a superhero. Mechanon captured him and reprogrammed him to become a villain: a nice twist on Vision's origin.

Some great stuff on this thread. There was a story in Scientific American this month on a new light-weight anti-radiation fabric, Demron, that y'all might find intersting.

http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=0008EC7E-C5D6-1E8C-8EA5809EC5880000

Don't know the answer to most of these, but here's what little info I have:

I haven't seen Brick since the 2nd edition modulette "Viper's Nest." I don't know if he ever appeared in any other product. Since Bluejay and Cheshire Cat are still around, there might still be hope for Brick.

And Giganto is still alive. According to Champions Universe p. 70, after Feuermacher and Scorpia betrayed Muerte, Giganto "retreated into the isolation of the Amazon jungle, and has not been seen since."

Re: Show based themes....

Originally posted by i3ullseye

Here were a few i was thinking of running. May get to a few of them, may not. but all woudl work well for lower level HERO games, which i prefer to supers.

 

#1- Invisible Man:

 

Based in the Sci-Fi series. One character becomes invisible, the others may have just typical agent powers...

I really liked that series: a nice mix of comedy, sci fi, and action. Invisibility has been done many times, but they got a lot of mileage out of the details of how the quicksilver substance worked: e.g. how he could coat other people, objects, or just part of his body with it, or use it to freeze objects to make them brittle. I think this would be an excellent basis for a low-powered supers campaign, especially if the players aren't too familiar with the show.

Originally posted by Blue

I always thought Starburst was the guy on page 6. Don't know why... I mean I never looked up anything on it. Guess he just looked like a starburst to me.

That's funny. I always thought it was the guy on p. 44 of 1st edition, just because it's the only illustration on the page with the combat example. But it doesn't say it's Starburst. Like you, I just thought it looked like him. That guy on p. 44 looks a little like the illustration of Starburst in the BBB (p. C18), but not that much.

Originally posted by Starcorp Man

The Star Guy was Starburst and yeah that was Holocaust. SJG actually made a Cardboard Standup for that Figure years ago. Funny is I've used him for years as a NPC Enemy, and the New Version and Mine are almost identical save mine was focused based!!!

Just curious: where did you get the info that the guy is Starburst?

Thanks for the link, LL.

I've seen that list before, from checking out Derek's page. It's the best information I've been able to find. Unfortunately, it doesn't have any info on the different versions of the 1st and 2nd edition rulebooks, but there can't be too many people who have mutliple versions of those early books: they were so similar, that multiple copies would probably only be of interest to a completist collector.

Originally posted by Blue

This the powder-blue wraparound cover by Mark Williams? I just fished mine out of the box of treasures to take a look. Not sure I can identify everyone on the cover.

 

I think the blue & silver guy is CRUSADER, 1st edition's sample character, without his mask. The purple & red armored guy does not seem to match anyone described in the 1e book.

 

(Man! I forgot how underpowered some of the characters were. Most were around 200pt.)

Yeah, 1st edition Mechanon was only 445 points. Nothing to sneeze at even at current point levels, but a lot deadlier when your PC is built on 200.

I never thought that guy on the cover was Crusader, but there are a few costume similarities (the star design and the gloves). This guy doesn't have glider wings though, and Crusader doesn't have any type of Iron-Fist-like punch, so we always assumed he was a different guy. We called him "Smasher" or something like that.

In our early games, we made all the characters on the book covers as PCs or villains. Gargoyle was a particular favorite. We called the villain on the cover "Dr. Havok." The armored-guy on the back was "Galahad." (I played him for several years.) I think we decided the woman on the back was Mind Slayer, but it probably isn't.

AFAIK the blue wraparound cover didn't come in the boxed set. That's the genuine, real 1st edition, with the really cool character portraits (drawn by "Dal Chele") on the character sheets. The guy that introduced me to Champions had that edition, the only one I've ever seen. (Maybe I just don't get out enough.)

I've got the boxed set with the blue NON-wraparound cover (the speed chart and combat modifier tables are on the back). It's the 4th printing of the 2nd edtion rules. That set also included the hex map and Viper's Nest. I've also seen a grayscale version of that same cover for Champions: it came in later versions of the boxed set.

I'm curious: does anyone know more about the differences in the early editions? I've thought about collecting the different printings, but haven't done it.

Originally posted by Redmenace

... This is just an oppinion, but the unknown quality of the character seems to generate a lot of his mystique. When you quantify him with a backstory it diminishes him to "just" another bad guy.

 

Okay that might not be very helpful or in the direction you want. Here are some alternatives.

 

Psychic manifestation- Maybe its all the fears felt by earth's peoples manifesting or maybe a latent psionic is subconsciously creating him. He becomes physical for a time, or ectoplasmic whatever, and can be defeated and destroyed.

 

However, as long as people are afraid of the dark he'll be created again somewhere. Maybe a villain who uses phobia projection or fear gas is triggering his latest appearance and the key to knocking off the monster is stopping the other guy.

...

I agree with the idea that the Monster is best left unexplained, but if you like the psychic manifestation idea, you might want to take a look at the first "Asto City" collection. The Living Nightmare fits that idea exactly. He's only a small part of one story, but it might give you some ideas. (And you should buy Astro City anyway, because it includes some of the best comic book stories ever made.)

I, too, have done my part for HERO. I plan to ask the wife, my brother, and a few friends to vote as well.

I don't play many other RPGs, so in categories where HERO had no entries, I just voted for anything about zombies. That made the short fiction vote a difficult choice...

The deadline for voting, according to the origins site, is June 1, 2003.

The GM I played with most often used the Monster sort of like a hunted for which we got no points. The Monster would just fixate on a hero and keep showing up: always on dark stormy nights, while the hero is on a stake out or just trying to enjoy a night off.

It was especially scary for Nightfall, my 200 pt. martial artist with no resistant defense. The Monsterreally scared me when I was playing that character, because I couldn't stop the Monster or survive his attacks. He became more of a force that drove the story, not a villain I had to defeat. I just had to stay on the run from him and find out what had caused him to pursue me (turned out to be a curse). This was one of my favorite gaming experiences too. It's frustrating for players when they must defeat opponents that are far too powerful for their characters, but I loved knowing I could "beat" the Monster by watching my back and solving the mystery.

Re: Hero's dropping dead left and right?

Originally posted by beastialwarlust

I seem to be having a hard time getting damage classes figured correctly. In the game I'm running I have a character playing a samurai using kenjutsu from the UMA. I ran a test combat between him and another player. the samurai with 2 swipes of his weapon was able to kill the character quickly ....too quickly it seemed. the base damage for a katana is 1 1/2d6 which would make it a DC5. ... with some lucky rolls could kill most characters with 2 swings of the sword, most characters having a 15 body.. So if I send an NPC villan samurai after them it seems like it will kill them easy since there isn't much armor availble. ...

Keep in mind, a character doesn't die until he's taken twice his BODY in damage; i.e. someone with 15 BODY dies when he reaches -15 BODY, not 0. You are correct though that someone with 15 BODY would be incapacitated by 2 good hits with a sword. Monolith is correct that, with 2 trained combatants, it could be a long fight before anyone lands 2 solid hits; but when those hits get through, some very real damage will result.

I think this aspect of the HERO system is very accurate. A few deadly swings with a sword by a skilled and unusually strong warrior would incapacitate someone with no armor and no defensive skills. A 17 STR guy probably wouldn't even need a sword to kill me in real life.

The character you describe, while probably cheap compared to many Champions characters, is a superb athelete and trained killer armed with probably the best type of sword ever designed. Give a short sword to a guy with normal stats and skills and it will take him a lot longer to kill an unarmored opponent. No unarmored opponent should expect to survive very long against a samurai, unless they have incredible skills of their own.

Many other systems, like D&D, create characters that can seem to get stabbed, shot, burnt, and electrocuted 50 times in one fight without being knocked out (or even stunned). But hit points are intended to take damage avoidance skills into account, not to reflect the damage a character's body can take. In HERO, BODY is meant to reflect that more directly. Characters need other characteristics, skills, or equipment to protect themselves from taking BODY, but fortunately they have lots of opitons.

I don't think I would read too much into "The Liberator." A superhero from Palestine, whatever his politcal convictions, would consider himself to be the good guy. His choice of name might reflect his own political beliefs , but not necessarily those of the person who created the character. So Liberator could have very skewed, radical politics and still be a good, heroic person. (Y'know, like Trebuchet. )

[LL said most of this a whole lot better while I was typing.]

All IMHO of course. For all I know, whoever wrote that pdf had a political agenda, but that idea doesn't mix very well with everything else I know about Hero and DOJ.

Re: Strictly as an example

Emerged, I like that high Stealth roll. Not quick, not agile, but he's out there somewhere...

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Paranoia Sense: Detect A Class Of Things 18- (Analyze, Chronoscopic (+4), Discriminatory, Microscopic (x10), Range, Sense) (34 Active Points); Cannot Completely Control, Strictly Non-Combat (-1)

That's a power I'm a little too familiar with.

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Tom Huskey

I think you forgot a disadvantage:

5 Reputation (mistaken identity): Thomas "Zoo Man" Huskey, Knoxville serial killer (recognized 8-, extreme reputation, known to limited group)

Or maybe that's one of those reps that count as perks ...

I can attest, from having spent far too much time here in the past few days, that the site has not been down.

Originally posted by Blue

Review? Bah! I'm not waiting for any review. I'm dispatching a team to Kieth's house right now to retrieve the book. They've been briefed in the ways of Kieth. They know about his weakness for cheese-based snacks, his susceptibility to the piercing screams of nagging women, and we've informed his hunteds so that they can keep him busy. The overdue library book collection team and the ministry of funny walks were both very interested to hear about his location and will be there soon, though the ministry will be there in a very roundabout way. That book will soon be mine!

ROFL

Isn't it weird that I have exactly the same disadvantages? (I'll bet I'm not the only one.) That lousy ministry of funny hats won't leave anyone alone...

Re: Once more into the ethnic heroes fray.

Originally posted by Enforcer84

... PS: If there are any other "Random" :rolleyes:ethnic Heroes I might have missed from the Superfriends Cartoons, let me know.

Well, there was the Atom: he was clearly a mick. Sure, he said his name was "Palmer," but you can't believe a word that tiny drunk said. Remember the episode where he fell in that bowl of "milk" and couldn't climb out? Irish people and their whiskey.

I can't believe they could put that in a cartoon for children. Where were the censors?

And don't get me started on Hawkman ...

Originally posted by Blue

Not your fault. All micronauts look alike

Except that little guy who had the egyptian sarcophagus. What was his name? That guy was cool.

Pharoid was the Egyptian guy. Damn the Micronauts were cool!

You're right about many of them looking alike. Time Traveler, Space Glider, and Galactic Warrior all had identical heads. (Must've been cheaper that way: 1 mold.) Acroyear looked pretty distinct though.

I guess I just joined your hijack, Blue. Did someone say something about a missile?

Re: Champions to V&V

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

...were there conversion kits in the back of the early Champions modules for converting Champions to V&V?

I don't think there were any conversions in the early HERO modules, but I'm not positive. There aren't any instructions for conversion in any of early books that I have (1st or 2nd edition "Champions," "Enemies, " "Enemies 2," and "Stronghold").

Originally posted by slaughterj

... Note also that the use of naked advantages such as are in the book seem contradictory to other Hero gospel, in that as a rule, you are unable to use a power without its advantages - the concept of a "naked" advantage basically flies in the face of this rule, not to mention the ramifications of being able to use the base power without the naked advantage, thus costing less END, etc., making "naked advantages" clearly superior to the normal advantages setup. Since Hero games has clearly allowed the concept of naked advantages, it should recognize this contradiction, and address it, for instance by saying that one can use a power without its advantages, depending on the sfx, and not have to pay the END for it. But enough of that soapbox

I thought that (prior to 5th edition) naked advantages were almost always illegal, unless there was no other way to create the effect you're looking for.

The FAQ for 5th says there are still some limitations on it:

from the FAQ discussion on naked advantages

Of course, you should have a good reason for buying an Advantage “naked†beyond “I don’t want to use it all the time.†In the case of the character you describe, he’s got a lot of Limitations on the Advantage that don’t apply to the base attack. That’s an interesting and intriguing power construct, one most GMs would allow. There’s lots of neat stuff you can do with naked Power Advantages that’s both cool and non-unbalancing. But if there’s no real distinction between the base power and the naked Advantage, the significant possibility of abuse rears its ugly head, and the GM should forbid the purchase, or at least tread carefully

IMHO, the structure tesuji and slaughterj describe crosses the line (although it is a cool idea), since it just looks like a way to save points. It just gives you a lot more options with no limitations, and doesn't jibe with what Steve described in the FAQ. I don't think I can call it illegal, since the rules are pretty nebulous at this point (FRED really just says go ahead and use them), but allowing these kind of naked advantages could lead to some surprisingly powerful characters at just 350 pts.

However, if everyone (PCs and villains) can use naked advantages this way, it's not as big a deal. I'd be interested to see the differences in the characters from a campaign run this way.

Nice job on Power Man (but watch out for Luke Cage if he decides he wants his name back).

One little mistake I noticed: when you buy Hardened for your PD and ED you have to pay the cost of the advantage for your base PD and ED too. You don't have to do that for Power Man if you only want to harden the extra defenses (+9 PD and +11 ED), but since you hardened your full Dmamage Resistance, I'm guessing you want him to have 20 PD and 20 ED hardened. It'll only cost you 5 more points.

Re: newbie questions on power construction

Originally posted by Jorik

How do you roll for the attack of the Stun Song? do you need to develop a power skill? or are ECV + CSLs enough?

They are both built as Area Effect attacks with no range, so they can only be targeted at the character's own hex or the six hexes surrounding him (everything within reach).

Area Effect (AE) attacks are aimed at the hex itself. A hex has a DCV of 3, so it should be pretty easy to hit. As the power is built right now, you would use OCV to target the hex. That might seem a little strange (in concept, the character isn't "aiming," just opening his mouth and singing) but in this case it reflects the character's ability to project his voice right where he wants it. You could buy the "Based on EGO Combat Value if you wanted to use ECV, but that isn't necessary (and it would make it more expensice).

You might also consider taking personal immunity on the Flash part of the attack, or buying some Flash Defense vs. Hearing. That way he won't be deafened by his own attack.

Originally posted by Hermit

Actually, that's the interesting thing... San Fran is one of the "3 most active cities" mentioned in the 5th CU book (Right along with NYC and Chicago). Likely for the reasons you mentioned.

Or maybe because Darren Watts lives in San Fran. He's handing out super powers like candy!