Shiva13

OMCV also represents a character's force of will. A character without sufficient force of will, won't be capable of heroic deeds. Simply because they do not have the force of will to motivate them to do them in the first place.

If the 6 points someone can get by selling their OMCV down is the breaking point for you, then you should be glad you've never seen any of my characters.  You'd be like:

 

Usually I'm the GM.

And many posters in this thread seem to forget one of the core rules of the Hero System. "The GM is the final arbiter of the rules."

And as a GM, looking at that stunt, I'd tell you to "Go @#$% yourself" And throw you out of the game group.

A player committing such an act is "gaming the system", And not actually playing in the campaign that the GM and the other players have worked so hard to carefully craft. They instead are being directly disruptive. And frankly, in my opinion, they deserve the wrath of the whole game group.

I had one player in a campaign in the past that pulled this stunt with literally every character they submitted. Regardless of concept. It absolutely was an act to scam extra points through "gaming the system". There was no character concept justification for it at any level.

Seeing this type of munchkinism has only served to reinforce one of the reasons why I took a long break from the Hero System.

When people Munchkin the system, they nullify the fun of using the system for me. Using the Hero System becomes a burden instead of a source of pleasure. And frankly. I have other games that do the job for me without the aggrivation.

To quote the Angry Video Game Nerd: "@#$% it!"

I call it munchkin. Because it is.

It's trying to get extra character points for free. Which is straight up gaming the system. "Gaming the system" has another name. Cheating.

I'm going to also address Grailknight's example. Professor X has a Physical Complication. It is in no way a "sell back" of characteristics. To engage in "selling back" those characteristics would be "double dipping". First gaining character points for the Complication. Then trying to get extra character points for "selling back" the characteristics. That's straight up cheating the system. And any GM worth their salt will look at a player and veto it.

And what about game play at the agent and heroic levels?  You DO realize that people play this game at 100, 150, and 200 pts (total, including complications), right?

And you understand that at those levels, the characters are more likely to be in the company of Shield agents or James Bond than they are to be chumming around with the likes of Superman or Wolverine, right?

 

i.e. In plenty of games, characters are commonly less than normal in some ways while better than normal in others ...  but still 'normals' and not 'supers'...

Agent and Heroic level characters are not "normals". They are the equivilent of action and spy movie protagonists. Which by their very nature are seen as greater than "normal".

Good try. Just not good enough.

I think doing so is munchkin.

In a superhero game, it also goes against the concept of playing a superhero for a super character to be "less than a normal" in any of their stats and resistances.

Protagonists in a superhero game are generally expected to be more than a normal.

Author for what? The core book has material by myself, Sean Fannon, Ross Watson, and Steve Kenson. That's it as far as I know. Unless you count all of the testimonials to Aaron.

The person you mentioned after yourself.

I refuse to ever again buy any books he has worked on. Period. Regardless of the subject.

I have no problems with the other writers. But that one I do. I have known him face to face.

I am restraining myself a lot in this message. To stay within forum rules. But suffice it to say. I have very strong feelings on the matter.

A writer who has demonstrated zero respect for the audience they are writing for does not deserve any support. And I will not give any financial support to them. That's the bottom line to me.

I chose to reply to you because I felt you deserved answers about why I wasn't backing a project in which I normally certainly would. And in general. You were polite about the whole situation. Others were not.

I was going to support this on Kickstarter. But then I read the author list. And well apparently they are using a writer whose work I absolutely hate. So I won't be picking up this book at all. It's a no sale to me.

The shame in this is that I am a huge fan of the original Strike Force book. But I guess I will just have to settle for the copy of the original book I already have.

I have taken the recommendation of some of the people in this forum and took a look at Fate. And I have bought all of the books for it.

They have put out a small supers supplement called Venture CIty Stories that has gotten a generally positive reaction from me.  It's good stuff. And I'm looking forward to their Powers supplement that they mentioned will be forthcoming.

In all, Fate looks very promising to me.

As for Hero. I still play it. I still GM for it. It is an old stand-by for me. It is what I know and use continually.

As you have every right to.

 

If you'd like input from us, what kind would you find helpful?

DEMON is supposed to be an enigma. As should be all arcane organizations. Mystery is a huge part of what makes magic fearsome and what it is. It's that sense of the unknown that needs to be preserved;. So having too much of the background of DEMON revealed goes counter to that.

The Luther Black version of DEMON has no mystery to it at all. All of its goals are outlined in specific detail. There are no mysteries to it. Just overwhelming power. And honestly, that's not good for a GM and not good for making fun memorable stories for your players. They will just be waiting for that big hammer to fall. Where is the fun in that?

Here's the crux of my whole arguement here. I do not like the Luther Black version of DEMON at all. I prefer the original depiction from the original sourcebook.

So that is why I chose the direction that I did.

In an online campaign, the subject of DEMON came up. And generally it was decided primarily by me as one of the GM team that the current version of DEMON fronted by Luthor Black just wasn't to my tastes. And that it was time for a return to the core elements and concepts that made DEMON what it is.

Luthor Black's organization would be the most public arm of DEMON. It would not be the full extent. DEMON's masters allow Luthor Black's organization to exist because it distracts the public from their true enigmatic agenda. For the most part, the true powers of DEMON faked their own deaths during the takeover by Luthor Black, Because it took them off the radar when it came to superheroes, allowing them to pursue their goals relatively unhindered.

The true DEMON is the classic DEMON. From PRIMUS & DEMON.

What is their goal? Power. Amassing as much material and magical power as they can, to ensure their dominance in the world. While manipulating events from behind the scenes to their favor.

DEMON has evolved, grown, Learned the value of a disposeable public face. No matter what happens, DEMON will endure.

Are there more the one race?

 

Is there a "Green Lantern Corps" like organization?

 

How are they aliens different then humans?

 

Has there been an invasion of Earth?

Yes. There are quite a lot of alien races in my setting. Both having originated from Earth and from other places in the universe. Humans in my setting, for example, did not originate on Earth. And there are other descendants of the original base species out in the universe that view Earth humans with wary eyes.

There is intragalactic law enforcement active in the universe of various kinds. But not one all encomposing police force like the Green Lantern Corps.

Different species and ancestoral origins. Some are close and relatable to humans, but also others are not. It tends to be mixed.

Yes. In fact humanity's original arrival on Earth could be considered an invasion that happened in prehistoric times. Also, there have been a few instances of alien aggression towards Earth. Much of which had been provoked by various governments and organizations.

This is a thread that is a bit of an inspiration to me.

I'm looking for ideas for Japanese superheroes from outside of the common western believed stereotypes..

So leave your Samurai and Ninja at the door please. They are not what I am looking for. I'm looking for new ideas. Because the stereotypes are way overused.

Champions Online was never meant to be an emulation of the Hero System itself. They have said that from the very beginning. It was never intended to be an emulation of the Hero System.

Instead, Champions Online was a game inspired by the Champions Universe setting, with some minor inspiration taken from the Hero System mechanics

The secret factor that produces supers of all kinds in my setting, is the fact that supers are the human relatable expression of the planet's system of antibodies. Supers are antibodies. But they are also not the only antibodies in play.

The biological system of the world produces antibodies when there is a  percieved infection or other threat that requires them.

Humanity doesn't understand any of this. They believe that supers come from a variety of different sources. From mutation, to all of the other standardly thought of supers origins. The bigger picture has largely been out of reach of modern scientific comprehension and the human scale of reference.

That being said. The other secret is this: The Earth itself is a sentient lifeform. Whose consciousness and awareness operates on a scale far beyond human comprehension.

In the past it has let its will be known through avatars it has chosen. Who act to translate those desires to down to a humanoid level of thought and scale. But it does so very rarely. Because it is very difficult process.

Is there any links on how to do this. im looking more for the attributes than anything

I created a Rifts to Hero System conversion system many years ago that I distributed on the Champions Mailing List. So yeah, I know it's possible.

But I won't distribute it publically now because of Palladium's practice of hunting down and litigating people who do conversions to death.

How long have superhumans existed in your superhero universe?  

 

When did they start wearing costumes?

 

How many superhumans are there in the world?

 

What is there relationship with normal humans?

 

How has the presence of superhumans altered the history of your campaign world?

Superhumans in my books/campaign world have existed since before history was recorded. They have been called different things throughout the ages. Titans, gods, and in modern ages, supers. But they are essentially the human relatable expression of natural phenomenon.

The population of superbeings in the world goes through rises and falls, depending on a specific natural factor. There are times of high population and low population, depending on the shifting of that natural phenomenon. These shifts are why there are very few superbeings at certain points in history compared to others, why there are those times when those populations are high.

Superheroes really started wearing the costumes we are familiar with today in public starting in the 1960's. It was an out-growth of the social upheavals of that time. But before then, there was a long tradition of mystery men and adventurers.

How they have effected the world depends entirely on the individual nation you choose to look at. In the US, both the public face of the government and the public have largely embraced them as a fact of life. But there are also hate groups and extremists that go after them, like any other minority.

In converting a character from 5th Edition Revised to 6th Edition, it actually took me a couple of months work on that character. And that was with Hero Designer.

 

I took so long in doing so because I was still getting the feel for the new edition. And it took many character revisions to become satisfied with the outcome.

The adoption of and proper use of Unified Power certainly added some to the issue.

In converting a character from 5th Edition Revised to 6th Edition, it actually took me a couple of months work on that character. And that was with Hero Designer.

I took so long in doing so because I was still getting the feel for the new edition. And it took many character revisions to become satisfied with the outcome.

The more time consuming that things like character creation and management of a game system is to me, the less time I am spending thinking about new characters and fun new situations And that's a negative to me.

I would be at my most happiest if I had a game system that utterly and seamlessly faded into the background. And was only referenced when the need arose. But was otherwise out of my way most of the time of the time, so I could spend that time creatively.

When I got into gaming, it gave structure to something I had already been doing since I was a young child. Making up stories and playing them out with friends or family.

I had the writing bug since I was in first grade. It manifested then. Even when my spelling was pitiful, I was still charting out my own stories. And engaging in fan fiction then. It's always been as natural as breathing to me.

When roleplaying games hit me square in the face, I didn't truly see them for what they were. I saw them for what they could be. A gateway to further expressing the characters and stories I always carried inside my head.

Roleplaying has never been about the mechanics to me. It's always been about gathering the tools together to tell a really good story with a group of people.

I'm not a Mod, but I feel I have to speak up.

Too much "fan defensiveness" of the game system runs the very real risk of becoming condescending or insulting to the readers of the forum thread that may share differing views than yours.

I've gotten a bit of an implication from reading some of these newer posts of fan elitism. And the condemnation of those who display different tastes as either being stupid or lazy.

That is negativity none of us need.

The complexity issue is a valid one. I think part of the problem is the competition RPGs face nowadays from the numerous other entertainment options that are available. I feel as though people were more willing to make the learning curve investment for a complex RPG in the eighties than they are now. Nowadays you really have to lower the barrier to entry just to get people in the door. I don't think Hero character creation is complex so much as time consuming' date=' but either way it's an obstacle.[/quote']

 

I thoroughly agree with you on this.

 

If you look at Mutants & Massterminds over it's 3 editions of development, you see a clear pointed effort at serious system refinement. The differences between 2nd and 3rd Edition of M&M are extremely pronounced. To the point that they are almost different games from each other.

 

I think the Hero System needs that level of development and refinement. And it's needed it since before the Fuzion attempt.

As a fan of Hero (and Champions specifically)' date=' I've found myself running other games due in part to my group and in part to looking for some streamlining. I ran Hero through the '80s and '90s, with some play during the early '00s. While I like both 5th and 6th ed versions, 4th ed was my favorite. I loved the setting in particular and carried it over through 4th, C:NM and into 5th before ending the campaign and compiling my own campaign world. Since then, like you, Darrin, I've found myself sampling system after system, including Silver Age Sentinels, M&M 1st-3rd, d6 Supers, and Deeds Not Words. I've even looked at Savage Worlds and many of the indie superhero RPGs. In the end, we settled on M&M3e because it had some of Champions' flexibility but was a bit more streamlined when it came to equipment and vehicles. Honestly, I think at this point, if I got to return to Champions, I'd be house ruling quite a bit in to help the system be more what I want it to be (which, IMHO, is one of the things I like about Hero). It's rough finding a system that appeals to both you and your gaming group. Have you looked over Super or Icons? Super always looked interesting to me, and Icons can be fun. Good luck Darrin, I hope you find the system that works for you. [/quote']

 

I'm currently with M&M 3rd edition. And I'm so fluent in both Hero and M&M that I can translate characters between the two systems rather easily.

 

The current owner of Supers! actually sent me a complimentary copy of that game yesterday. So I could check it out and see if it was what I was looking for in a game. Nice effort by a nice guy. And I'm still evaluating it.

 

Icons is built around random character creation. Which I'm not thrilled by. So my search continues.

 

BASH UE actually sounds interesting. And it certainly has a lot of nice sourcebook support.