Supreme

Re: SPD based on Active Cost

Suggestions like this all seem the same to me. They are attempts to prevent players from "raping" the system to make characters who are too powerful. For me the best way to go about this is to look at the character and say, "that's too powerful."

Re: An Alternate Superman

To me the point of Superman being raised as humble Clark Kent in rural Kansas is a demonstration of our unspoken cultural belief that Urban America is morally bankrupt and that the rural heartland of America is where we get our morals and values. I'm not a big fan of that idea, so I'd like to see a story where Kal-El is adopted by a middle-class family from New York or Chicago or even Atlanta.

Re: must keep topic alive!

I belive that was a Movie thing (and now a Smallville thing)' date=' but it's never been that way in the comics as far as I'm aware. It's always been a styalised "S".[/quote']

Yes, originally it was a stylized "S." Byrne made it official when he did "Man of Steel" and showed how and why he and Jonathon Kent designed it the way they did. When they made the movie the Donner and Mankewitz came up with the idea to have all Kryptonian families have symbols that resembled letters (makes you wonder how the Phoenicians got all the way out to Krypton ). So the idea that the symbol came from Krypton, not Clark's imagination, caught on with others --like Bruce Timm. Now since Waid did "Superman: Birthright" it's become official DC canon. I think it's really stupid, and is probably the result of executive interference, but there it is.

Re: I' m in a philosophical mood tonight.

If any of you don't own "Unbreakable" rent it, and check out the DVD featurette. There are a number of people talking about comic books and super-heroes (and even how overly intertwined they are). One of the people is Trina Robbins, who does "Go Girls," according to her you can be a good person without the presense of evil but you can't be a hero. Without evil, you'd just stay in Smallville and be a really good person.

Re: I Can't Believe He Played That!

I half agree with this, as I have two players who are big into anime to the point where it scares me. One of them actually grasps that I don't like 99 percent of anime, and therefore doesn't try anime stunts or anime-inspired characters in my game. The other one doesn't quite get that ... though I confess to getting a certain thrill when he tries to pull a 'Goku move' and it blows up in his face.

"But that wouldn't happen to (insert anime character here he's emulating)!"

"No, it wouldn't. But you're not him, he's not in this world, this world is not his show. So it did happen to you."

 

I also suffer significant frustration when he tells me he's going to do something 'just like (insert show here)' and I have to ask him what that means, and we get a conversation like this ...

"Okay ... I'm gonna do Ubidubi's signature move from UberMunchkin Anime Delta."

"And what's that?"

"Dude, you've never seen UberMunchkin? Man, it's awesome, it's got this ..." (five minutes pass) "... and then Goonicus does ..."

"I meant, what's the maneuver?"

"He runs up the wall, across the ceiling, then holds his sword straight down and drops frop the ceiling point first! It's, like, the coolest thing ever!"

"You got Clinging?"

"Uh ... no."

"Then you can't do it."

Ooh... You've got a serious genre fiend on your hand. One of my problems with Anime-fiends is that they focus on what I always considered the worst of superheroes -- gory violence, cliche, cynicism -- and leave out the best -- flashy costumes, hope, unique style.

For you Anime fans here, keep in mind: I'm not making a statement about Anime, only Anime-fiends.

Re: I Can't Believe He Played That!

Worst Ever:

I don't remember the name, though he probably never had one. The player wasn't too big on names or even costumes. He played Champions as if it were Car Wars. The character was a vampire gadget-archer with light and darkness powers. The capper? He actually tried to put all of that in an Elemental Control. I said, "pick one -- and not the vampire." He went with the gadget archer, I suspect, so that he could take -1 for OAF on all of his powers. He killed three agents (who weren't even evil) by firing an explosive arrow at them when they were getting away on a skiff in a swamp. They were knocked, the boat was in pieces, and they drowned. "Why the HELL didn't you just shoot an arrow into the propeller?!?"

The player was a nice guy and would play ball once you explained things to him. You just had to explain more to him than the other players. I think that Anime/Manga fans and Classic American Comic Book Superhero fans just don't mix all that well. The morality and outlook are just too different.

Re: WWYCD #118?: The man from UNTIL.

What better way to preserve his cover than to toss his butt into jail? If he really is an UNTIL agent, then his agency can arrange for his release/escape.

Re: Gravity Control tricks.

Increased Knockback, Usable by Others

TK, only in straight lines (-1/2)

Transformation Attack: anything into a singularity

Re: Best way to strip someone down.

Keep in mind that for characters who derive their powers from their costumes, this is no cosmetic transform. For the pants around the ankles, I don't see that as being major in a Heroic or better game. Most characters are fast enough or strong enough to either pull them back up or burst right out of them. You might want to add in a PRE suppress. It's hard to be threatening in your tighy-whiteys.

Re: Why is Superman being called stupid?

I guess superman is a Golden Age character. This age starts with the Action Comics #1 with superman as main character in 1938' date=' don't it? (I'm not sure but it's a similar date/comic)[/quote']

Yes, June 1938 was the release of Action Comics #1. This is probably the only universally agreed upon date for the comic book period known as the "Golden Age." Superman #1 did not appear until the next year. Then Superman was billed by Siegel as being a "Hercules in strength, a genius in intellect." These days he just sports a degree in journalism from Kansas State where he went on a football scholarship (though I think Mark Waid might have retconned that again in "Superman: Birthright," I can't remember).

 

I think that what really makes Superman look stupid is hanging around Batman.

 

Interesting side note: Lex Luthor first appeared a couple of years earlier in Detective Comics (#4 I think) as a criminal mastermind with red hair. So Luthor actually pre-dates Superman.

Re: WWYCD? #113: What If God Was One Of Us?

Pretty much any character I've ever played would destroy the glove. Champion (my version, a cross between Superman and Captain Marvel) fought the Axis and would understand the pitfalls of having too much power. Freedom Fighter would destroy it because he wants to run his business (and R&D Engineering firm) not rule the world.

Re: Superhero Day!

This'll screw with their heads:

In some cities like San Francisco and New York an "Exotic/Erotic Ball" tradition where people dress up like the super-heroes (especially the PCs) as a sexual fetish and cavort about in sex-clubs and fetish bars.

Re: Re-tooling an Old Concept: Herakles

If you decide that he could, then he could.

 

Most of the truly ancient cosmological models had the vault of the sky as some type of solid shell or dome covering the Earth. What exactly the stars were varied with time and place: gems or sparks of fire set in the dome were common, as was the idea that the shell of the sky was surrounded by light or fire outside, which showed as stars through holes in the dome.

 

The exact composition and weight was never specified AFAIK, but with this concept it becomes easier to visualize actually lifting it; you just have to travel to a place where you can get within touching distance of the sky-vault, such as a high peak close to the edge.

I was thinking that if they though, for instance, that it was a blanket with holes punched in it, then I could calculate the mass of a blanket 25,000 miles long or something. Anyway, this is becoming silly beyond the limits of fun. I think I'm just going to go with an 80 with an Aid to a ceiling of 120 with no conscious control. Thanks for sparing the brain cells, guys.

Re: Re-tooling an Old Concept: Herakles

Really? I thought they got that right.

Aristophanes got the circumferance right to within a few percent. Not a bad feat considering that he had two poles and a runner to measure it with. Don't know about their measure of the weight, though.

Anyway. Howabout the weight of the earth, minus the weight the earth would be if it was made of atmosphere? (don't ask me to work that out... )

 

After all, it could be thought of him doing a handstand on the sky and using his legs to support the earth...

 

(brain hurts now...)

You're hurting my brain too!

Re: Re-tooling an Old Concept: Herakles

Was it possible in the myth for people to just' date=' like, walk on over to where Atlas held everything up? I'd attribute it to an extra-dimensional place specially suited for that so the str needed would be different, still amazing levels of strength (no normal guy could do it), but not enough to actually hold the "modern/real" universe.[/quote']

Not just anyone could make the journey safely, but otherwise yes. Atlas' point-of-holding for the sky was a place that existed physically on Earth.

Re: Re-tooling an Old Concept: Herakles

I think you may be giving yourself a real headache by trying to give a literal empirical quantity to this mythic feat. First' date=' of course, it's impossible to get a physical "grip" on atmosphere. Perhaps more to the point, Herakles didn't hold up the atmosphere, he held up "the sky": planets, stars, the whole deal. The ability to do this is based on a very different cosmological model, so real-world statistics aren't really going to help very much. The amount of extra Strength required would then be whatever you decide is necessary.[/quote']

Headache? Maybe, but it's also fun to crunch the numbers some times.

And yes, it was my deliberate intention to interpret "the sky" as the atmosphere as it was the only thing that my mind could wrap around. I suppose I could try other interpretations. What did the ancient Greeks think the sky was composed of? Could a Champions character lift that with less than 290 character points?

...As far as a Limitation goes, I'd suggest the -1 version of "No Conscious Control." Some published characters have used a variant on it as described in FREd where the character has no control over when a Power with that Lim can be used, but once it's activated can use it freely. That would let the GM define "dramatically appropriate situations."

Hmm... Good idea. The GM has to really be willing to play ball though as it's extra work for him.

I want to do the classic Greek hero as a super-hero. Trick is getting the amount of strength correct. Now we all know that one of Herakles' adventures included having to hold up the sky in Atlas' place for a while. So... how much does our atmosphere weigh?

Second question: I don't want this character running around with sky-lifting strength all the time. I want him to be able to Aid his STR up to that level -- but only under appropriately dramatic circumstances. So how do you write up "only in dramatically appropriate situations"? I'll entertain any and all ideas no matter how small the limitation is.

Just to keep you all up to speed...

To recap: I told my players to make chatacters with different power levels.

The 200 point character level dictates that the character cannot be especially effective in combat, but has all kinds of abilities and skills which are useful for advancing the plot out of combat. The 500 point character is expected to be the combat monster, no real useful non-combat abilities. The 300 point character stands between the two. He (or she in this case) has a reasonable amount of both combat and non-combat abilities.

What my players created:

Dr. Claw is a 200 point scientist who had his left hand mutated into a scaly green claw in a lab accident. His most frequent gadget is a visor which gives him various enhanced senses.

Kir is a 300 point alien brick. Kir comes from a race of hunter-gatherers who shunned her for being too small (a mere 8 feet tall). She was transported here from another dimension, and in the process had her strength increased to 75. Kir is definitely a fish out of water, but brings with her a lot of hunting skills and instincts.

Ice Queen is a 500 point energy projector who is the daughter of Aphrodite and an Antarctic explorer. She was born fully grown in the ice from Aphrodite and subsequently developed all kinds of ice powers.

I ran another session and things seemed to go all right. More or less. The main trick has been to keep everything from centering too much on Dr. Claw. A lot of that is incomplete plotting on my part. I think the other players have the mistaken impression that when they're out of combat there's nothing for them to do.

Re: Character Challange: Superman Clones

This is the second, which follows a more traditional Superman origin.

We all know how hard it is to replicate Kryptonian DNA. The best you can hope for is to graft sections of Kryptonian DNA on to human DNA. So some yutz (probably at Cadmus or STAR) grafts sections of Super-DNA on to three babies. The result is a trio of super-powered teens (forgive the names, I've never bothered to come up with any).

Super-Blue

Has all of Superman's strength and invulnerability. Wears a predominantly blue costume with yellow accents. Personality contains all of Superman's passion and righteousness (think Golden-Age activist Superman).

Super-Red

Has all of Superman's senses and Heat Vision. Wears a predominantly blue costume with yellow accents. Personality contains all of Superman's moral and ethical standards.

Super-Yellow

Has all of Superman's flight and speed. Wears a mostly yellow costume with a red "S" and other red accessories. Personality contains all of Superman's compassion for humanity and humility.

Re: Character Challange: Superman Clones

I've had two particular ideas in this vein. This is the first.

First, is to change the origin. My Kryptonians are actually humans abducted by an alien race called the Krypt-ona. The technological forte of the Krypt-ona is genetic manipulation. Unfortunately, they've been forced by previous bio-wars to innoculate themselves which makes their DNA too difficult to safely manipulate. So they "import" their labor. They take humans, supplied as infants from orphanages by -- you guessed it -- Lex Luthor, and genetically manipulate them to perform various types of specialized labor.

The ore-miners, called "Kal-El" in Krypt-onan, are designed to have special senses to locate the ore, super-strength and invulnerability to dig it out, heat vision to smelt it on the spot, super-breath (pure nitrogen at incredibly low temperature) to cool it, and flight to haul it away. As the heaviest elements are found around third-generation stars, like our yellow sun, the Krypt-ona designed the slaves' to absorb radiation from such stars.

To make sure that the slaves stay in line the Krypt-ona take two steps. One is to make a police-slave series, called "Zod" in Krypt-onan, which are designed with similar abilities to keep the other slaves in line. The other step is to design all slaves with an inherent weakness. The energy aura which is the basis for all of the slaves' powers operates in a particular frequency. All frequencies have an antithesis. There is an artificial particle with the antithetical frequency, that the Krypt-ona have designed, which causes massive neural feedback in the slaves. It also reduces the strength of the aura itself. This particle can be imbedded in heavy elements, like lead, making them radiate this particle. The only side-effect is that the elements tend to radiate visible light when they change energy states, usually in the green frequency.

Kal-El is the last survivor of a slave rebellion which destroyed the whole Krypt-onan home planet (which circles a red sun).

Re: The original Jewish Superman!

The creators of Superman openly admitted they used the Midrash as their source of inspiration for Superman. Some of the stories in the Midrash are wild to say the least.

Just when I think I'm an expert on the subject... I've never heard of this. From my readings, the biggest inspirations for Superman come from Hercules, Samson for having a weakness, John Carter of Mars for getting his strength from the difference in gravity (and Krypton is "named after" Helium being the next noble element), actors Clark Gable and Kent Alexander for their names, Doc Savage for being perfect and a man of metal, and Siegel and Shuster themselves for their appearances (Siegel wore glasses). I think S&S felt inspired by many sources including possibly the Midrash.

As for other Jewish super-heroes... Almost all of the super-hero creators back in the Golden Age were Jews. It was a reviled artform (according to Eisner) and thus the people who worked in it were generally unwanted elsewhere (acccording to Chabon). I think it doesn't take much to see certain cultural characteristics in many of the early characters. Of course keep in mind that culturally those artists and writers were from a very specific groups of Jews: barely post-depression-era, Ashkenazim, usually Reformed - if practicing at all, from the New York area (either originally or from early on), teenaged, and male. Eisner once said of the Spirit, "Yeah, he had an Irish name and a short nose, but he was really Jewish."

In terms of characters being "officially" Jewish, I think Ben Grimm was probably the first ever printed, though it was several years after FF#1 that he was "outed."

Re: Longest Running Thread EVER

Play Ball!

I think it's photo-manipped. First, on the model on the left, the strap behind the breast is not straight and I don't see how in that position it could not be. Second, the model on the right's head is too small for her body. Third, the model on the right's bikini is too bright for something that's supposed to be in shadow. Keep in mind that I really don't care either way.

Re: Leagacy of Iron: Power Suit characters...

Well, if someone has the ability, through technology or inherent ability, to project forcefields which are as solid as normal matter -- and can be assigned the various charactertistics of normal matter (volume, weight, friction, etc.) then why not build a suit of powered armor out of such things?

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

A problem with vampires in a Marvel Age game is that the walking dead were banned by the Comics Code at that time.

 

From the 1954 Comics Code General Standards Part B:

 

The comics code was relaxed in 1971, opening the door for stuff like Werewolf By Night and Blade the Vampire Slayer.

The Comics Code also prohibited the military from being shown in an "unfavorable light" yet who did the Hulk fight every month? Marvel, even in the 60s, paid little attention to the Comics Code.

Re: Need (More) Help With Marvel Age Game

I thought I should also add something. A lot of you are coming up with good ideas about the vamps being programmed. Unfortunately, I have a built-in theme about that with the vampires. They are supposed to be very hard to control. Omenus' minions are a spectrum of control vs power. The easiest to control, the golems, are the least powerful, whereas the hardest to control are the werewolves who are also the most powerful. The vampires, are very hard to control but Omenus can make deals with them. Though he creates them, they operate essentially as independant contractors.