OzMike

Re: CHA: Kai Sun - Fist of Heaven

Thanks folks. I normally play bricks so he was a bit of a change for me.

If you wanted to up his power level a bit I'd give him a point of SPD, some physical and energy damage reduction (martial artsy based), a couple of levels of combat luck, some CSL, maybe a couple of MA damage classes, +20 PRE (defensive only), and maybe up his mulitpower to 6D6 for most of the attacks (for a total of 10D6, with the Power Strike upped to +9D6). That should make it a 45 pt Multipower (22 real) and each slot would cost 2 pts. You could also give him combat sense or spatial awareness.

But he's fine at this level too.

To depower I'd drop his DEX some, maybe even his speed, and get rid of a bunch of multipower slots but keep the Ghost Palm and Heaven's Fist attacks (which are basically his for schtick - fighting mystical asian menaces).

Basically he is a wandering cop/detective from a techno/fantasy Anime dimension.

I may give him to the wife (& GM) to have him show up with Blackcat.

Feel free. Makes my cockles all warm and suggly to think other people may want to use him.

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

I don't give points for NCM at all' date=' in any campaign.[/quote']

 

Cool.

 

For the record, I do if the players choose to take it. But they aren't extra disad points or anything. They count toward the 350pts. In the champions/supers genre.

 

Outside of that genre, I either everyone has it for no points or I ignore it and just set ceilings on stats.

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

My choice not to use NCM is about fairness on the mechanical side of the system. There's no reason to short change someone on the mechanical (points) side for something on the story (concept) side. The two are related' date=' but separate.[/quote']

 

But you'd allow a player to take the disad if they wanted to, right? You might try to talk them out of it, but if they wanted to take it you'd let them? Or do you totally disallow it?

 

Just Curious.

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

...to each his own.

Yup. And isn't that great? Makes for a heap of variety when playing and running games. And your way is just as viable a playing method for INT levels too.

Plus we tend to forget that they aren't really rules - they're guidelines:)

Re: CHA: Kai Sun - Fist of Heaven

And here's a pic:

Hey there all,

Thought it about time I contributed something creative so I present for your perusal the latest character that I am going to play. Not built on standard base (250 not 200) but still 350 pts in all.

I can post a detailed character creation origin (how I actually created the character etc) if people want. Oh, and he was created using HD 2.42.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kai Sun

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

20 STR 10 13- Lift 400.0kg; 4d6 [2]

29 DEX 57 15- OCV: 10/DCV: 10

20 CON 20 13-

15 BODY 10 12-

18 INT 8 13- PER Roll 13-

20 EGO 20 13- ECV: 7

20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6

10 COM 0 11-

15 PD 11 Total: 15 PD (8 rPD)

15 ED 11 Total: 15 ED (8 rED)

5 SPD 11 Phases: 3, 5, 8, 10, 12

8 REC 0

40 END 0

35 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 168

Movement: Running: 11"/22"

Flight: 5"/10"

Leaping: 14"/28"

Swimming: 12"/24"

Cost Powers END

10 True Sight: Detect True Form and Invisible 13- (Sight Group), Discriminatory

6 Mental Fortitude: Mental Defense (10 points total)

10 Spiritual Fortitude: Power Defense (10 points)

5 Wuxia Defense - Iron Ox Technique: Damage Resistance (8 PD/8 ED) (8 Active Points); Nonpersistent (-1/4), Must be aware of attack (-1/4)

10 Wuxia Movement: Multipower, 10-point reserve

1u 1) Walk to the sky: Flight 5" (10 Active Points) 1

1u 2) Leap to the horizon: Leaping +10" (14" forward, 7" upward) (10 Active Points) 1

1u 3) Run like the wind: Running +5" (11" total) (10 Active Points) 1

1u 4) Swim to the depths: Swimming +10" (12" total) (10 Active Points) 1

15 Wuxia Skills: Multipower, 30-point reserve, (30 Active Points); all slots Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2)

1u 1) Double Palm Strike: HA +4d6, Does x1 1/2 Knockback (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 2) Dragon Fist: HA +4d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 3) Heaven's Fist : HA +4d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 4) Ghost Palm: HA +4d6, Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 5) Power Strike: HA +6d6 (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 6) Righteous Fury: HA +3d6, Area Of Effect (2" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4), Two-Dimensional (-1/4) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 7) Spear Strike: HA +4d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 8) Ten Thousand Strikes: HA +4d6, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 9) Wind Fist: HA +4d6, Indirect (Any origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

1u 10) Chi Control I: Drain 2d6, any physical characteristic or power one at a time (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2) 3

1u 11) Chi Control II: Aid 2d6, any physical characteristic or power one at a time (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4) (30 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) 3

Martial Arts - Wu Shu

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

4 Martial Block +2 +2 Block, Abort

4 Martial Dodge -- +5 Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4 Martial Strike +0 +2 6d6 Strike

3 Martial Throw +0 +1 4d6 +v/5, Target Falls

5 Offensive Strike -2 +1 8d6 Strike

Talents

24 Master Of Chi: Danger Sense (self only, out of combat, Function as a Sense) 15-

13 Gift of Tongues: Universal Translator 13- (20 Active Points); Only for spoken languages (-1/2)

Skills

3 AK: The Shattered Realm 13-

3 Acrobatics 15-

3 Breakfall 15-

3 Concealment 13-

3 Criminology 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Forensic Medicine 13-

5 KS: Martial Arts 15-

3 KS: Mystical creatures 13-

2 KS: The Martial World 11-

2 Language: Russian (fluent conversation)

2 PS: Justice Knight 11-

3 Shadowing 13-

3 Stealth 15-

3 Streetwise 13-

10 Defense Maneuver I-IV

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 182

Total Cost: 350

250+ Disadvantages

5 Distinctive Features: Strong Chi (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)

10 Hunted: Floating: 'Gunslinger Mentality' Martial Artists - "Let us see if your skills match mine" 11- (As Pow, Mildly Punish)

20 Hunted: Cult of the Red Banner 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Capture)

20 Hunted: Floating: Mystical Asian Creatures 11- (As Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

20 Psychological Limitation: Code of the xia (Very Common, Strong)

Notes: "He will surely honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. Whatever he promises he will fulfill. He does not care his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, nor shamelessly extol his own virtues."1) He will keep his word2) He will help others in need3) He will be humble

15 Psychological Limitation: Loyal to Friends and Companions (Common, Strong)

10 Social Limitation: Unfamiliar with Earth (Frequently, Minor)

Total Disadvantage Points: 100

Background/History: Kai Sun looked down at the mutilated body of the small child, then back up at the tear-stained faces of the greiving parents. He recognised the wounds immediately, and grimaced inwardly. It was the work of demons - yaoguai. Nasty work too, and judging by the condition of the body more than one. It was going to be difficult to bring an end to this, but then again it always was.

"Will you help us, Justice Knight?"

Kai looked around the village. It was like all the others he had travelled through as he wandered the Realm. These were good people, but not strong enough or skilled enough to end this.. He was, and they needed his help.

"Of course."

----------------

Kai Sun is a xia, a self-appointed Justice Knight of the Shattered Realm. He protects the weak and innocent from malevolent mystical forces that seek to prey on them, as well as evil of the more home-grown and human kind. He wanders from place to place, helping as needed, and always seeks to improve himself so that he may better serve the common good. He has earned the name Fist of Heaven (or Heaven's Fist) due to his mastery of the technique, and his dedication in protecting the weak and innocent from yaoguai, oni, and other evils.

As to why and how he is on our world.... well, that's another story.

Personality/Motivation: Kai is generally serious due to the nature of his chosen role in society, but has a dry sense of humour that he reveals to trusted companions. While he dislikes fighting, he enjoys training and sparring. He is fully aware of the danger when he throws himself into it to protect others, and so often appears reckless.

Kai Sun's primary motivation is his adherence to the xia philosphy, which can be described thus:

He will surely honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. Whatever he promises he will fulfill. He does not care his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, nor shamelessly extol his own virtues.

Also, although his life has been fairly solitary thus far Kai is not anti-social and is incredibly loyal to those he trusts.

Quote: "I will fight you, but only if I must."

"Something's not right here..."

Powers/Tactics: Kai's powers and abilities stem from three primary sources: intensive training; mastery of internal chi; and gifts he has had from birth. Firstly, he is highly skilled in Wu Shu and Kung Fu styled martial arts. He is also trained in fighting numerous opponents. Secondly, his mastery of chi allows him to perform some of the more mystical wuxia skills and grants mental and spiritual fortitude, as well as honing his internal senses to such a degree that he can sense evil. Finally, Kai was blessed with two gifts from birth. The first is the gift of tongues, allowing him to understand and use almost any spoken language. The second is True Sight, allowing him to see through the disguises of those who seek to hide their true forms and the invisible.

Apart from this Kai is a talented detective and criminologist.

Campaign Use: Kai is a support fighter who, while lacking power, has a flexibility that few can match. Out of combat his detective skills, True Sight, gift of tongues, and his ability to sense danger make him incredibly useful.

As an NPC, Kai can be used as an ally against mystical or martial menaces.

Appearance: Kai is a tall and lithe, with piercing blue eyes and prematurely grey hair. He has Eurasian features, a dragon tattoo on his chest and back, and the tattoo of a Justice Knight on each arm. He moves with incredible agility, and is able to strike with blinding speed.

When using his Heaven's Fist attack, Kai's hands are surrounded by the relevant energy effect (e.g. fire, electricity), or temporarily transform into the relevant physical effect (e.g. metal, wood).

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

Yes, the trouble seems to be that length of time required for use of INT skills is generally quite arbritrary (spelling?) but here's how I'd play it.

If someone was applying the skill levels to say... a Science and I said it would take 10minutes to work out, then those skills are stuck for those ten minutes on that skill. After that time, the player rolls with that bonus. If they wish to shift them (say for a PER roll) during that time then the task still takes 10 minutes, but at the end the roll is sans skill levels even though they may have 'applied' them for 9 of those 10.

Also the reason to not make them apply is those complementary rolls, which for INT skills are often more INT skills.

Anyway, if INT and PRE skill levels cost 5 pts per, why don't DEX levels cost 15?

Finally I pulled that +2 modifier out of the air based on the adjustment power advantage to affect all relevant powers/abilities at once.

Also (sort of tangent alert) I once played in a game where INT actually cost 2 pts per point because the GM said that too many skills were based on it. And SPD was based on DEX + INT, not DEX +10. And DEX + INT was also your initiative. And skill costs were different too. And all in a Champions game. It worked, strangely enough.

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

I hope this does not come off as to preachey' date=' arrogent, or self rioutous, it is not intended to be insulting, but I do slip into that at times.[/quote']

 

And then edit yourself, which is a good thing.

 

I've really enjoyed these discussions about all of this stuff too.

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

6th edition?

Re: Fun Character concepts

My most fun character ever was The Invisible Swordsman. His background is that he was a golden age character called The Swordsman who got cursed by a wizard to 'never be seen again' and so became invisible and immortal. And his name changed from that point on.

I played him in what became a 'kooky' modern era game. Other player characters included the Ghost of Laura Palmer, Jester - a young gypsy girl with uncontrollable illusions, and another child character (can't remember the name) who could animate objects, including her follower Teddy Bear.

Anyway, the group also included an unintentional straight man in the form of teen brick Broadside. My character saw himself as a mentor figure and would constantly be telling him how heroes should act etc. It drove Broadside crazy. The best bit was when he went to his room to be alone (or more, where I wasn't), only to find that I had gone there ahead of him as my voice drifted from somewhere next to the bed "You seem to be getting angry - heroes don't get angry son." Priceless.

Same game had one of the funnest and most annoying NPC characters/villains I've ever known - The Spotted Hyena. He wore a white ninja night suit with multi-colored polka dots, had a 50 DEX, 12 SPD, and a 1D6 x4 Penetrating, Autox20 No Range EB with enough levels to cover the negative OCV for multiple autofire hits. He also had clairaudeince to the real world, and so could 'hear' the players talking too. Although he sounds mega powerful the main thing he did was jump out of nowhere (did I mention crazy amounts of superleap?) and balance on a bottle just because he could. He would generally spout stuff about how good he was whilst doing this, and occassionally hit a character for 1D6 when they tried to recover or if that character's player bad-mouthed him. He was annoying (and the character knew we the players thought that because he could hear us), but he was fun to have around

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

Why would you want to restrict INT levels to only one INT skill at a time? What's wrong with having INT and INT skill levels be 1:1 for cost? They should be worth the same thing' date=' if they do the same thing, and vice versa. If they don't do the same thing, then they should not be worth the same number of points. That's the essence of a balanced system.[/quote']

 

Because "A character can only apply a Skill Level to one task at a time." (5ER, p70). So when you are using them, or any skill levels, you must decide which skills, abilities etc they add to.

 

Otherwise those Overall levels become OVERALL levels I guess:D

Re: Classifying Supers

The reason Alpha is at the low end is that the folks developing it don't know what the high end could be. They've never recorded a Theta' date=' but it could happen. For all they knew, paranormals could evolve to the point where there's a universe-altering Omega.[/quote']

 

After all, it happened in Dr Who...

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

The value quoted for INT is not correct. The rules specifically state that 5-point levels with INT apply to all int-based skills and rolls' date=' including PER rolls. Thus INT is 1:1 just as PRE is.[/quote']

 

So I guess the question then is: why buy INT at all?

 

Answer? It works against all your INT skills all the time. I think (just shooting off the top of my head here) that skill levels need to be split between the indivdual skills.

 

If we got an give, say... a +2 advantage to the +1 with all INT skills to make it apply to all INT skills at the same time, then INT really has an effective cost of 3 pts per point of INT.

 

Same goes for PRE I guess.... and probably the DEX skills too...

 

And someday I want someone to work out the rules for an INT attack (ala presence attack) where you dazzle someone purely with your intellect, and not charisma

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

And while we're on the subject of what is 'normal' and what is not...

Strictly speaking by where it appears in the 5ER, Enhanced Perception is a power. If a character is say, a policeman and is a normal guy and therefore has NCM, does this mean that by some posters' standards he cannot buy +1 with Sight PER rolls (Observant in the Police Officer package) because it is a power and appears on that part of the character sheet?

Just curious really.

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

JmOZ:

Because NCM vs no NCM is an issue mostly assosiated with the Super Hero level of play, thus appropriate to champions?

That's the one.

Checkmate:

What the real question should be is: Do you think Green Lantern should be able to beat up a SEAL Team without his ring?

Which Green Lantern? What level of experience? At the same time? Sounds like bad writing to me, not something that he does on a regular basis. Maybe he had +10 CSL [1 charge lasts 1 minute, does not recover] and used it. Call it 'Rush of Adrenaline'.

Besides, if you're talking Green Lantern aren't you talking about someone who probably has EGO way over NCM? The whole willpower thing with his ring...

Re: Normals w/Abilities vs Supers [Offshoot of CSL vs MA]

This really belongs in Hero System Discussion.

Oops on that then:D

Just remembered why I put it here and not there though...

Firstly the original thread is in here, and it makes it easier to go and have a gander at the background of the discussion if folks want.

Secondly ...ummm... I forget, but it really was the best reason ever. It's late for me methinks.

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

With the DEX limitations I tend to break it down like this:

-1/4 Not for CV

-1/4 Not for skills

-1/4 Not for action order

-1/2 Not for figured

Although the first limitation seems a little low considering the old "Offensive Use" limitation is worth -1/2.

Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts

That being said' date=' a low level campaign Tarzan character with say, a 23 DEX/5 SPD would appropriately be 29 DEX/6 or 7 SPD in a high level campaign. Reality is pretty much maleable in RPGs.[/quote']

 

Yes, yes, and yes!

This is an offshoot so I'll give some background.

The discussion came about in the CSL vs MA thread and became the old 'More DEX vs Levels + Reflexes' debate. It's covered a lot of ground over there, so I thought it deserved it's own thread.

Here is (in my understanding) the gist:

Do you think that a character concept defined as a 'normal' person should have to take/have NCM?

Discuss.

(And please, like my sig says, be nice. It's a game.)

Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts

Is it OK? Perhaps. I mean morally it is a bit dodgy to say only women have NCM, but if that's the way the world has been set up then that's the way it works in the game. As long as the players know about it, why not?

And yes, it does provide the exact right reason for humans to hate mutants doesn't it? What's the term in Marvel? Homo Superior?

Anyways, this NCM discussion probably needs it's own thread. Seems like a goody.

Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts

Which was precisely the point I was making. He was claiming STR and martial arts were equivalent.

His Kung Fu is strong...

Re: Combat Skill Levels vs Martial Arts

Probably' date=' but depending on the player maybe not (He might amazingly never loose it). But even if he did have to take foci he would be appropriatetly compenasated for the loss of points, in other words while because of the concept he looses something he does gain something else (More points to spend). The problem I have been having is that the character is loosing something and not getting compensated for it based on the concept.[/quote']

 

But according to the way things have been discussed it seems that its not an issue in that campaign. Plus the GM has stated (I think) that normals are his favourite character archetype, and in my experience having the GM onside goes a loooong way;)

 

And I may have missed it but if this NCM thing is a consistent thing across the whole campaign for 'norms', what's the issue? These numbers on the page can be fiddled with by talented makers to make a character who can really mix it with the tough lads, or you can keep it simple.

 

Plus a good GM will cater for all character types and power levels. To use some example characters mentioned earlier if Batman and the Justice League were fighting Doc Destroyer and his minions (sure, a powered up version of the Doc I reckon), Supes might go straight for Doc, but some other equally dangerous opponent that Supes couldn't fight would be taken by Bats.... lets say someone Supes couldn't fight like... say... Krytonite Katana Ninja Guy. Bats would get creamed by Doc, but his player would be satisfied because if he doesn't do his job and take out Krytonite Katana Ninja Guy, then Supes is taken out and both Supes and Bats get wasted.

 

And then Bats could take the Katana "just in case" someone gets too big for their big blue britches:eg:

 

Wow - drifted off my own thread:)

 

ummm...

 

Plus I must say having played a Martial Artist with NCM surrounded by supers it was mighty satisfying to always hold my own. I couldn't fly, but I had 50 pts of Martial Arts and 6 levels.

Re: STR vs. Gravity

Maybe add in a CON roll? -1 per G? Amount you fail by is NND damage? Remembering to add a +3 or so in your normal gravity...

Hmmm...

Re: Help me brainstorm a disaster!

Maybe huge' date=' unwashed hippies are floating gently through the sky, tens of thousands of them, playing sittar music, refusing to fight in Viet Nam, using weak but relatively cheap illegal mind altering substances and having unprotected public sex. WWYCD?[/quote']

 

Maybe they are great big hippie balloons ala Macy's or that scene in Batman.

 

Hey, to get surreal...

 

Maybe a movie is actually being filmed in downtown Seattle about a mastermind who has arranged it so that a 747-ish sized plane taking off from the nearby airport will lose control on take off, take a dive, clip one of the taller buildings on the way down - and is heading right towards the center of downtown AND either a fictional superteam or actual top end superteam has to save the day. The trouble is - the heroes are either merely actors (some may even be method actors and feel that they ARE the heroes and act accordingly with disasterous results) or even the mastermind's hired goons who have replaced the actors or a combination of both.

 

Hows THEM apples?

 

 

Re: Characteristics, a special type of framework

No worries brother Oz - it is one of the forgotten characteristics usually.