Kenn

Re: Quicksilver on 350-450 points

Here, have another 355 point speedster.

http://www.rcuhero.net/hsheets/critvelo.htm

Re: History question

Flare' date=' Marksman, and Gargoyle (along with Icestar and Giant) were part of the San Fransisco Guardians in 1st edition. When they made the comic book, they were renamed the "Champions" in order to tie into the game better.[/quote']

 

Okay. I had come in during 3rd, and remember the comic characters almost as well.

Re: History question

What about Flare, Marksman and Gargoyle?

Maybe the team name "the Champions" has been used by several groups. James Harmon IV was in the 4th version of the Champions team with Seeker, Obsidian, etc. and then after his team was killed in the Battle of Detroit (he escaped with just his armour destroyed) he found Nighthawk, etc. and founded the fifth edition of the Champions.

Re: Killing Attacks vs Stun Lottery

And reducing the number of possible stun multipliers (3 instead of 5) would reduce the volatility.

Instead of the possible distinct stun results for, say, 1d6 killing being 15 (1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12,9,15,18,16,20,25,30) the possible stun results are now 11 (losing 16,20,25,30).

Fewer possibilities and smaller range (1-18 vs 1-30). Looks like Killing Attacks would be very effectively nerfed by the change.

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

Unless your speedster has also bought up his INT with the justification of "thinking really fast". And yeah, my group's main speedster has done that.

Re: Has anyone used the DEX split-into-3 rules in a Champions game?

Well, I wasn't thinking about it in terms of reality, per se.

Mostly, it grew out of a scene in a comic book I read YEARS ago. In the "Return of Barry Allen", there was a battle between "Barry" and Max Mercury (who was still being written as if he really had been the golden-age Quicksilver; Quicksilver had been a VERY acrobatic speedster.) The battle moved into the girder-work of a building under construction. The acrobatic Max was moving about fine. The normally faster "Barry" had to slow down because he was less sure on his feet. Essentially, Max was more agile, "Barry" had a better over all reaction time.

I've wondered about modeling this in Champions/Hero ever since. There are characters I specifically put a limitation on some of their heightened DEX to represent this. (I considered Lightning Reflexes and skill levels, but since this was more expensive than just DEX, it seemed broken.) But a part of me thought that this kind of difference should be more inherent.

Then, when I saw the Ultimate Speedster, it seemed like "Yeah!"

But while it answered the question as the how, a part of me wondered if I should include it.

In the Ultimate Speedster there were alternate rules given for splitting DEX up into three individual characteristics. I think they were Agility, Reflexes and Accuracy. (Don't have the book w/me right now.)

The fantasy game Savinien is going to be running next week uses them (because the book we're playtesting does too.)

But in discussing it, I was reminded that I've considered using them. But I was wondering if anyone else had used them, specifically in a super heroic game, and what kind of effect they had.

So has anyone used those rules for a Champions game?

Re: Hawaii Hero

How well does you GM know Hawai'i? I was only there for 3.5 days, but I did notice that, despite being in the U.S., it really felt like a different country. I hope your GM can catch that.

Re: Mind Scan vs. The Detective

I think a lot of the problem - at least as I've run into - is that too many GMs think a mystery is done by withholding information.

 

the best mysteries are done by Giving information. Often more than is needed. And it always points in multiple directions.

Amen!

Re: From Pulp to Golden Age

Marketing and mass media happened.

As Superman became a hit, other publishers tried to ride the gravy train. So they made their "supermen" perform even more outlandish feats. So National countered and Superman had to do even more.

Then as Superman became animated and got on the radio and into the funnypapers, things kept getting bigger too. I don't think anyone had worked out his limits.

And then after 7 years, the Bomb was dropped and Superman had to be made more powerful still. Everyone was afraid of the Bomb. To be an effective symbol of might making right, Superman had to be tougher than the Bomb.

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

Out of curiousity' date=' what was the point / DC range that you ended up with? Did you end up with gadget lad being unable to effect cosmic man (or his villains)?[/quote']

 

That's a very difficult question to answer. There are a handful of characters who, if pressed, could regularly get into the 20-22DC range without going to specialised maneuvers like Haymaker of Move Through. However, what they CAN do and what they ACTUALLY do vary. But I'll get back to that. The lower end is even harder to judge. On paper, the character with the smallest attacks is the archer whose standard arrows do 3d6+1K or 7d6N but has 4 whole explosive arrow heads that can do 10d6 Explosive, normal damage. However, this is also the guy who as 6 penalty skill levels vs hit locations and 6 penalty skill levels vs range mods and 6 levels with Ranged combat. So, his attacks may not be big, but they're precise!

 

Similarly, the Defenses range from about 14 (usually a normal human with a protective uniform) to, on the highest end, 50 (with Damage Reduction besides, but only 30 STUN and a 7 REC).

 

So, while I don't think there's any one character who would be completely unaffected by any other one character, it is generally understood that yes, certain characters are pretty much outmatched by other characters.

 

I am curious as well because in my experience everyone wants to play Thor and few want to play the Falcon. What happened when the group faced off against the villains' date=' esp BBEG who can take on the whole group? I keep thinking of Gravitar (from Marvel) who held off Thor and Iron Man while keeping the rest of the team pinned to a wall. Great for Thor/IM, BORING for the rest of them (if we look at them as PCs).[/quote']

 

I'm not even sure what a BBEG is.

My experiences, I figured out years ago, don't match most peoples. At our busiest, before life set in on everyone, we actually had three different campaigns going. What I figured out pretty early on is that many people sometimes want to play Thor and sometimes they want to play the Falcon, depending on their mood. So I accommodate this. Each player is allowed to have two main player characters, with the understanding that the two will rarely ever meet (it's not asking them to do double duty.) That said, only half the players have really availed themselves to this. The other half are still at one each.

 

This kind of structure precludes ever getting a "the whole team vs a single foe" type fight. But honestly, my model is the silver/bronze age Justice League. I don't expect, or really desire to tell that kind of story.

 

If I want to tell a more human level (say urban crime) story, I'll have the players use their more down-to-earth characters.

 

If I want to tell a more cosmic story, I'll have the players use their more cosmic characters.

 

If I want a more standard, mid level super hero story, we'll mix and match.

 

If I want a bigger "epic" type story, I can do the "the team splits up into smaller groups" thing. I've had two concurrent multipart stories occur.

 

It also helps because my players are spread out over a large area. Getting everyone together for a session is tough. We can usually count or one or two absentees.

 

But the biggest part of what makes it work is the group of players. We aren't a group of adolescents looking to fulfill a power fantasy. We're a bunch of guys in our late-30s or early-40s who all have a similar understanding of the genre. One of the biggest things is understanding that it's not all about the fights. A lot of it is about being clever.

 

Hawkeye doesn't go toe-to-toe with the Gamemaster. He makes a wager with him and tricks him.

In an abandoned warehouse full of thugs, Batman's a combat machine. Against the General (formerly the Shaggy Man) physically he hasn't a chance. But if he direct his teammates to move the general to the bulk teleporter pad? He's the MVP.

 

And on the other hand, there's the "just because you can get up to a 22 DC attack, doesn't mean you have to." A good number of the most powerful characters in the campaign have large VPPs. (85-105 pts.) Our speedster's player could easily go "90 pts. That's a +18 HtH attack, so with my 20 STR that's 22 dice, and I'll use the other 30 points to..." But he doesn't. If it was necessary, he would. But he'd rather put it into Teleport, Usable Against Others, Must Cross Intervening Space, Area Effect and clear the civilians out of the area. Or drop the bad guy off in the Sahara (out Area of Effect for Megascale.)

 

We're generally more into role-playing and having fun and being clever then seeing who can be the most violent or who can throw the biggest attack. Yeah, there are a few in the group who're more into the fights and the dice, but there's still stuff for them to do to.

 

I hope this answers the questions, because I don't want to hi-jack Killer Shrike's thread.

Re: Typical abilities of the Common Pig?

1 Just wait... You'll see that I really CAN fly!: Flight 6"' date=' Position Shift (17 Active Points); Window Of Opportunity (once per Million Years; window remains open for 1 Day; -10) - END=2[/quote']

 

Hmm. You'll believe swine flew.

Re: New Limitation for Hand Attack

Since a Disarm is a STR vs STR contest, anything that's going to add to a disarm should be STRength.

Ghost Angel's Multipower is a good idea.

Or, if you don't want to deal with the MP.

5 +15 STR, no figured characteristics(-1/2), no lifting - combat applications only(-1/4), OAF - Tonfa(-1)

That would add 3d6 when striking, or apply the extra 15 STR to the disarm. Also make grabs and escapes more effective (the former being when the grabber has actually gripped both ends of the tonfa so the grabbee is actually fighting against that grip strength; the latter being harder to justify - but as an OAF the GM would be justified in disallowing it anyway.)

Re: Costumed Crimefighters Collective

Though rather less structured, I did something similar with my campaign when we converted over to 5e five or six years ago. By allowing different base points and having a wider range of abilities we've actually got the characters all closer to concept. And it feels more like the comics. The nigh-cosmic types feel nigh-cosmic. The gadget laden normals feel like gadget laden normals. Within these general types, being a veteran or a rookie can still be discerned, of course. But it's worked well for our group.

I hope it works as well for you.

Re: Star Wars Jedi (and light sabers)

lightsabres as NND? So you guys think a lightsabre could cut through Superman' date='the hulk or the front plate of a main battle tank like butter? I just don't see it . Armor piercing or just piercing seems better to me. Although in a non supers environment it matters less I suppose.[/quote']

 

Front plate of a battle tank: I'd expect a light sabre to be able to cut through it, but it would take some effort.

Superman: honestly it depends on which Superman to determine exactly how effective I'd expect a light sabre to be. Earth-One Silver Age Superman would not be affected. Most other versions (modern, pre-1946, post-CoIE) I would expect him to be affected a little bit, but not cut through like butter. Enough to justify the artist to draw the costume damaged and the visible slash on the exposed skin that represents the wound. Not enough to really affect him much. Then again, if you look back at my version of the sabre, only 1-3 Body would be NND. Enough for that costume damage and the visible slash, though.

Re: terminator where thepeople scrapes with damage

3 Flesh Suit part 1: +3 BODY, limited power: not protected by 'natural' rPD & rED(-1)

2 Flesh Suit part 2: +6 COM, linked to Flesh Suit part 1.

For every 1 BODY lost, the character loses 2 COM.

Less expensive than the Shapeshift.

Re: Star Wars Jedi (and light sabers)

I built my homage Light Sabre as a few different abilities

1/2d6 Killing Attack Offensive Damage Shield, NND Does Body, Defense is Force Field (built so its no range and has no STR bonus applied)

AND

a multipower

25 Energy Sword Multipower: 50 points, linked to Energy Blade(+0); OAF(-1)

2 u On Offense: Hand-To-Hand Killing Attack 1d6+1 (vs. ED) @ 0 END(+½),

Armor Piercing(+½), +2 STUN Multiplier(+½); No Knockback(-¼)

[2d6, +2 STUN Mult., A.P. w/STR]

1 u On Defense: Missile Deflection Any Ranged Attack, Adjacent Hex(+½)

1 u Best Offense is a Good Defense: Missile Reflection Any Ranged Attack,

Reflect At Any Target; Only Works Against Energy Attacks(-1), Will

Not Work Against Heavy Missiles (-¼)

And yes, had to get GM permission to put the missle deflection slots in the multipower.

The NND represents the blade existing and burning nearly everything it touches.

The "On Offense" actually represents swinging the blade at a target. Though a Force Field will stop the NND portion of the attack, the A.P. HKA mights still damage whatever the force field is protecting.

Re: Why the dislike for Find Weakness?

Thanks , I do like that much much better. I just didn't think dark champions had much to offer me. It didn't occur to me there would be decent new/old mechanics like the above.

 

Checking my old books I can find 1st,2nd and 4th editions but no 3rd so I guess I missed piercing the 1st time around.

It was in Champions III when I first saw it.

Re: Regenerating Touch

Yeah, combining Aid and Regeneration into one power "Healing" sure simplified things.

Re: Adding Power Defence to Entangle

Somebody going around using a Drain vs BODY on entangles that you want to hinder?

Re: The Greatest American Hero

Misfits of Science yes, Jamie Summers, The Flash or The Master sure. Bill Bixby's Incredible Hulk would fit as well. Maybe Automan.

 

Clark Kent are too far out of period with the rest; most of the others are late 1960s to mid 80s TV characters. The Flash is a bit of an outlier in the 90s as well.

What about Street Hawk. 1985ish. Costume, trick motorcycle?

Re: Destroyers Rewrite??

Hi guys, I'm looking for the 4th ed. source books where the following characters appeared:

 

1. There was a rewrite of the classic Champions villain team the Destroyers (originally from Enemies II and the adventure Deathstroke). In this rewrite, the team hired a marketing rep who changed several things about the team (e.g. As I recall, Death Song was renamed Requiem).

 

2. There was a samurai character in a suit of what looked like traditional samurai armor. It may or may not have been hi-tech armor. I think this character was drawn by Fredd Gorham. And the source book that this character appeared in came out about the same time as Allies, The Mutant Files, and Champions Presents #1 (and may have even been one of those books...I don't know). I realize this is vague...sorry.

 

Your help is most appreciated!!

The Destroyers rewrite was in the 4e edition of "Champions Universe" I believe.

Re: I'm just drawn this way... Power Suggestions needed

Jim Lee: Life Support, no need to breathe; +10 rPD only to Spinal Damage.

Rob Liefeld: Life Support, no need to breathe; +15 rPD only to Spinal Damage; +5 BODY (extra vital organs)

Matt Baker: +6 COM, Instant Change (Only to partially clad state)

Carl Barks: Desolidificaton (Only to pass through huge quantities of tiny items)

Frank Miller: -4 COM, Mind Control, telepathic - single command - Act like an a$$hole.

Re: Dextracardial

If you're shot through the heart, it's too late.

You'll give love a bad name.

Re: To gun fu or not gun fu?

With a gun, in particular, I think it can be said that the extra damage represents accuracy.

However, in the example I described above, of a baseball pitcher using his pitching techniques with a hurled attack, the extra damage (or lack thereof) could be force resulting from different pitching speeds.