Richgee

Big, I can assure you wearing any kind of glove or gauntlet affects your manual dexterity. If you are in doubt next time you need an operation by all means insist your surgeon wears a pair of chain mail gauntlets rather than surgical gloves. I've worked in operating theatres for years an can assure you even wearing surgical gloves affects your dexterity. Add to that lead coats and collars and you have a distinct drop in mobility. The current versions of these products are all designed for max comfort but you can still wring the sweat out of your shrubs after a 10hr shift. If you are still in doubt put on a pair of regular gloves and try picking up and threading a needle.

There is also the point that unlike the soldier a knight was born to it. As the son of a nobleman you were born and raised to become a knight. You practiced in combat and armour from an early age until they become second nature. As a knight you are the top 1% of society. You eat well, you have time to do things other than just survive and you are fully sponsored in the field. Comparing an armoured knight to a normal person is like comparing a 3rd generation elite athlete to a normal person. So for these historic knights you have no baseline normal, from birth they are already 10 steps ahead of normal.

I think armour penalties for real world armour has the ability to bring some balance to some areas that cause issues in a fantasy game. We accept the encumbarance penalty from armour, the dex penalty would seem reasonable with the option of buying off the penalties with skill or familiarity, so what about magic skill penalties. Using the same thought process you can argue that spells that need intricate movements to cast would also be affected by wearing armour. The need to buy skill in armour would discourage your party wizard from slapping on that magical plate armour to boost his RPD if they were due a hefty magic skill roll penalty for wearing it. Role master and other systems have an armour penalty for magic based on the type of magic you use that helps to balance magic use. I think changes to armour penalties in hero could simulate this without unbalancing anything. So I've been inspired to look at it for my next campaign. I'll post my attempt when I'm finished.

I would argue that if you feel that in a low fantasy game that fighters are too powerful then perhaps your game is just reflecting combat in a quasi medieval setting. That said you do have options. Historic weapons have a very real impact on the out come of a fight. If you want to balance the combat perhaps you need to do the research. Every real world weapon has a purpose and you need to focus on simulating their efects in the hands of trained soldiers. A few examples are Bodkin arrows designed to be armour piercing. Bill hook pole arm used to knock/pull knights off of horse back Military fork pole arm used to capture limbs and over balance heavily armoured enemies. Heavy bladed dagger used point only to stab soft parts on downed armoured foes. Your man at arms is trained to operate in small groups and combat the effect of the super knight on the battle field. In game terms they have team work and access to unbalancing/throws martial manoeuvres based on the weapons available. Also they have the ability to over power and strip armour from downed opponents. If you want balance you need to include the anti tank rocket as well as the tank.

For calculating mixed armour Dex penalty you could use the following. Left leg (mod x 1.5)/9 Right leg (mod x 1.5)/9 Torso (mod x 3)/9 Left arm (mod x 1)/9 Right arm (mod x 1)/9 Head (mod x 1)/9 Use the mod for the heaviest piece of armour covering an area. So plate over chain gives a mod of -3. Then just add the fractions and round off for total penalty. Thoughts?

I know this is a bit out of left field, but you could run a few games of Paranoia (old dystopian game of brutal double crossing) to get the back stabbing out of their system, and some survival horror to get them in the mood for cooperation. You can run 50 point hero characters for a good survival horror game either fantasy or modern. Low level work together or die alone can me fun to run, just keep a few spare pre generated characters to hand.

I could not agree more with the above. Balance is key.

When you look at it remember there is a load of permutations when it comes to armour, so a solid breast plate(front only) with chain mid thigh coat and leather trousers is not uncommon. Ignore the full sets they will write them selves and look at the historic combinations worn by mobile troops. They tend to balance comfort, protection and mobility. Heavier armour on the arms and legs poses a greater mobility penalty than when strapped to the torso or head.

You could go for 75+75 point characters max 9 total damage classes with an average of 6-7. Max ocv 8 max dcv 8. Normal human maximum for characteristics with no more than 3 above 15 for straight figures. If you start too high there is no where else to go. Keep spells to healing, damage and general purpose (avoid mind control, transformation and aid they can be open to abuse if you don't impose strict controls) Characters at that sort of level will easily deal with guards, goblins and orcs etc but will be fodder for the bigger fish. It also means you can use listed creatures more easily without tweaking them too much.

I don't think that is excessive for a fantasy campaign. I'm assuming your characters are "hero" level and regularly combat fantasy monsters. For fantasy higher dc's 9-10 is not too high if that is balanced by the enemies you face. Where the problems arise is when a gm is talking about realistic damage when running a fantasy campaign, but is unwilling to set limits. Hero is an open system with little limits on character creation and open to abuse if a gm allows players to build as they see fit rather than set limits that fit the campaign. I have only ever had issues around this while playing as a pc, with gms who would rather try to please everyone than enforce some basic world rules. The bottom line has to be if you don't want 75 point pc's to have 12dc attacks don't let them. But if it balances your game what is the issue.

If you want to move people into hero, try running a hero "lite" game to begin with. I was introducing my son and his friends to the system, all they had played before was ad&d. So I took some basics on what they wanted to play created characters let them tweak them, only told them the base simple skill check and combat rules. Then ran the game. I positively encouraged them to go dramatic on the combat descriptions then interpreted their ideas to combat rules. It was really satisfying to hear "no way is there a rule for that" for every action they tried. After the first session I handed out combat extension base manoeuvres and hit location charts, by the end of the 3rd session they were desperate to build their own characters and my son is now running a campaign for them. I find the sheer number of options is what frightens most first time players off the game. As gm if you can shield them a bit till they are more open to the idea you may get them more on-board. I have to say though classic traveller(little black books) is still class. Nothing says traveller like wondering how you will pay the mortgage this month. That's a hook in and of its self.

It has been a long time since I picked up the books or rpg but as I recall the eternal champion is a possessing entity with its own agenda. I've got to agree. It is an entirely different build with no skill or attribute over lap. Just some memory transference. You jump from 25 point normal human to 250+ near God like being.

The question is not is armour good enough it is how much damage is too much. If you take your knight in full plate armour pd 6 rpd 8, the average peasant will do 1d6hkd against him. Which on average is absolutely nothing. Which is what you would expect. If he's up against a man at arms then allow 2d6 which is an average of 0 body and 7 stun which represents your knight getting beat down. First though he has to get hit. Your average knight will have been trained in the use of armour from the age of 10, the notion of knights getting hoisted on to horses is a fallacy. In the same way archers deformed their bodies from constant practice so did knights. The armour was built to perfectly fit and the knight would have suffered very little encumberance from the armour. Slap a 60 pound pack on your back and jog 10 miles as an average guy and you will regret it. But even with a few months training you start to miss the weight when you take the pack off. It was the same for the knights. The real issue is if your highly skilled knight is going up against a Dragon he needs magic armour. There is a reason that the entrance to the dragons lair is littered with the bodies of other knights. If your pc's are in the 75point region they are in the top 5% of their profession. They are the elite. Also remember the damage roll is only the climax of a hit roll. You still need to actually hit the knight to affect the damage. The peasant will have an ocv of 3 the man at arms maybe 5 your 75 point knight will have a dcv of 7+ so the chance to score a hit is slim. In a low fantasy setting your knight is a battle field God. In a high fantasy setting magic armour is not that uncommon, so his survival rate should be reasonable even against mythic beasts. Balance is key. You cannot impose the same limits across the board. Increasing base armour values is not the answer build them into magic items for high fantasy. That's how I handle it but obviously it's not the only way.

Can I suggest magic skill levels bought with the OAF limitation. This can simulate the need to have your book to hand to cast effectively. It also gives magic users the option to buy the skill at reduced cost if they want to take the chance.

They also involve a 25 point farm boy suddenly realising he has a spare 350 character points that he forgot to spend 90 minutes ago when his gm said "ok let's get this game started." ;-)