Great Beyond

Re: Forth wall perception?

Oh, it wasnt fourth wall - well, kinda sorta - but a couple of years ago, I had a dimension hopping character who came home one day with a HUGE box of comics. Apparently it was an entire run of their lives, in comic form. Secret IDs, intimate moments, stuff that nobody could have known. They, as I recall, were pretty tripped out about it. Especially as they were reading, when they got to the last issue they had - which included them reading their comics.

Even better? The blurb for the next issue - it was a classic old school marvel "Next issue! SOMEONE DIES!" blurb.

As it turned out, nobody did die next game, but they were all watching their Ps and Qs that day I can tell you.

I have a villain like this that I plan on springing on my PC's at some point - his only power is that he can hear the gaming table. He considers the "voices" to be puppet masters that control the actions of the different heroes in his reality, which means the characters are enslaved to petty inter dimensional tyrants who put them through pain and hardship for their own amusement. Therefore, the NPC (called "the Puppeteer") goes around the country, listening for the "voices", which let him know that there's a 'puppet' nearby. Once he identifies a puppet, he'll try to "cut their strings", thereby freeing them from the tyrrany of the puppetmasters.

 

The twist is that, by the time he gets to the PC's table, he starts hearing me, the GM - which means he realizes that he's being controlled by a puppet master as well. Thus, his interactions with the PC's are really an elaborate murder/suicide, whereby he cuts his own strings while 'freeing' as many 'puppets' as he can.

Oh, you need to post that character, stat! I'm so having that for my game.

This is kind of inspired by the Fourth Wall Perception thread - have you ever done a big multi-game crossover? I mean - assuming that you have more than one campaign/setting/universe/game - ever done a game where these various characters meet (and of course in true comic tradition - fight)?

For a while now, I've been toying with the idea of a game where the Evil Mastermind is someone who figured out the secret of the universe - not so much that they are just pawns in a game, but that there are all these dimensions, and all these people in all these dimensions are different facets of the same diamond. Kind of think of Jet Li's "The One" - but without the 'kill the others and gain their power' thing, and your in the right ballpark.

So I'd take characters from my West End Games Star Wars campaign and adapt the characters as best I could with the hero game engine, take characters from games we haven't played in a long time, trying to pick and choose a good match up. Then my oh so clever Mastermind would use his extra-dimensional Time Scoop to gather these characters into an arena for his own personal amusement. (Perhaps he's weeding out the week, trying to build an army strong enough to shake the pillars of heaven - I haven't decided).

Anyway, after some rumbling and sorting out of who's who, they'd get together at some point and bring the Thunder down on the Mastermind.

Anyone else ever try this? Does this sound like a good (if admittedly rough) idea? Or is this just too hokey for words?

Re: How to kill characters?

Something occurs while reading the other posts. Would you allow the players to dictate how your game is to be run in other fashions?

 

"I don't want to be captured; uncapture my character or I'll quit the game"

 

"I want the build you dislike. Approve it or I'll quit the game."

 

"I want a 750 point character in your 350 point game. Allow it or I'll quit the game."

 

"You keep disarming/entangling my OAF character. Stop it or I'll quit the game."

 

How is "I don't want to make a new character for a new campaign un;less my character is killed. Do it my way or I'l quit the game" substantially different from any of the above?

 

While it doesn't apply here, that's not necessarily fair in all cases. Natasha, my brick from some time ago, took twice as much effect (body, stun and everything else under the sun) from magic attacks. For a while, it was fine until it turned out that every single bad guy the GM's were coming up with were magic based in nature. Suddenly my uncommon weakness turned into a "so bloody common that you're getting poked by children and homeless people on the street with magic sticks". I went to them and while I didn't drop the "do this or I'm outta here", bomb, I did mention my dissatisfaction with the state of affairs.

 

So yeah, I could see a point where that level of response is appropriate.

Re: How to kill characters?

The second is a modified Blake's 7 approach. As before you wind the campaign up to a crescendo and then point the heroes at a macuffin they ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE TO SAVE THE WORLD and then put the heroes through a meat grinder to get to it. The final survivors get to have their moment as they grab the widget and turn to face the overwhelming tide of enemies who have flooded in behind them. Call phase 12 to begin another combat and let the players declare their actions. Then just give a wicked smile' date=' thank everyone for the great campaign and pack up your dice. The game is done.[/quote']

 

Wow - what a wonderfuly brutal idea! I must steal this and squirl it away somewhere for the end of my game someday.

Re: Go home, Superman!

I've not run into this problem with superheroing - no Supermen in my games, but I have run into it with my Star Wars game. The players have run with Anakin and Obi-Wan on several missions during the clone wars - and they might as well be Superman and/or Batman. So I simply set it up so it's a "Ok, this fight is too big for any one of us to take alone. You guys go this way and deal with threat A and we'll go this way and deal with threat B." thing. Both sides have the right skill set to deal with their portion of the problem, and both sides need the other to succeed overall.

Teamwork for the win!

Re: Forth wall perception?

I've always wanted to do a character who was insane - who knew that he was just a character in a role playing game. He would have a character sheet with his stats on it, carry dice wherever he went, and would have to make a roll whever he wanted to do an action.

Mind you, this wouldnt be me the player actually rolling to see if whatever it was happened. He'd have to "make" his roll before I could roll. Everything in the game would have to have two rolls now.

Cool idea, but only in the short term. That level of insanity is tough to play out long term.

So I was having a discussion on another board, and for some reason or another, champions cames up - and he posted this:

Once, while running a Champions game a friend approached me and said that he wanted to play a villain for a one-off scenario. Typical thing, villain plans to destroy the world blah blah. His plan?

Spend roughly 60 character points creating a doomsday device that, in time, would eat the planet! (For reference 60 points was rough 20% of a starting character...not so much for a doomsday device!)

The item consisted of a specific attack called a Killing Attack that would inflict 1 point of damage. This would cost 5 points. He then added a number of advantages including Radius (small but vital, makes the power affect an area), 0 End Cost (so that it would continue), Independant (means it will run even after the character has fallen unconscious or died), Penetrating (makes it work against hardened substances that would otherwise resist a mere 1 point of damage) and, last of all and the most vital, Sticky.

Sticky was an advantage that you could put on many different powers. As defined, anything that comes into contact with anything affected by a Sticky Power is also affected. So if I throw a sticky web grenade on you and your buddy touches you or is bumped into you, you also get stuck in the web. Cool huh?

So the doomsday device is activated and dropped on the ground (or into the water). It affects an area by virtue of the Radius advantage. Everything in that radius is now being affected by the device, as defined by the sticky advantage. The whole thing grows at a hideous rate until everything on the planet save for a few rare (read: Immune) minerals remain.

Needless to say the players (who actually stopped the device) were horrified by this when they discovered how it worked and that it was completely within the rules.

Now I dont have my book with me, so I cant check it - but I didnt think sticky worked that way. A sticky wasn't a ever expanding blob of goo (or whatever).

So I'll ask here - is that a legal build? Putting aside of course, the fact that'll never get past a GM with any sense of brains.

Re: Another Brick in the Wall (Tell me about your Brick!)

My favorite brick would probably be Natasha. She wasnt too terribly oustanding in the strength and toughness department - 50 str and 30 PD/ED with 50% reduction. Tough, but not nigh invunerable.

What made her such a blast to play was that she was far more than just a brick. She had an int - oh, something pretty horrific like 30+ or there abouts. Well into the Super Genius range. She was always working on some mad scientist project or another, had a nucular bomb under her bed - and she loved to rebuild things. She had a 1-1 scale train set with a restored steam engine she recovered from 1885.

She also had a hundred or so points of shrinking and growth- which was always fun, since there was a couple of 'could go off at any time' disads on those. Fun for her, fun for the friends around her (she had the usable on others, too).

Oh, and weirdness magnet too. That kept her life . . . interesting.

Re: [split] Paris Hilton-Supervillainess! [builds]

Agreed.

 

 

And I would term her mental defense (in reference to what the mentalist would say) "I got nothing"

If I were doing this, I'd go with no ego (like 4 or 5), but TONS of mental Damage Reduction (like 75% hardened or something). Easy as hell to hit, but she's just too thick for damage to get through.

Re: Heroes for pay

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details' date=' like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode. [/quote']

Didn't watch the show much did you? They were always concerned about expenses (well, Face was mostly), and they were always getting paid by clients, or dipping into the defeated villain's ill gotten gains and taking some off the top for operating expenses. No, it wasn't a real world economy, but they did pay some lip service to it.

In my longest running game, the team operated kind of like the Ghostbusters - they had an office downtown, a secretary, and a 800 number. In trouble? Bad guys blackmailing you? Help was one phone call away - professional metahuman investigations and eliminations, 24 hours a day! Honestly tho, the money aspect was pretty much glossed over and the hotline was mostly used for a quick and easy to set games in motion as necessary. (The team was mostly supported through action figures, comic book sales and movie/television deals).

The most recent game had the team officially on the city's payroll as the official superhero team. It was a small stipend, mostly covering the cost of replacement costumes destroyed in the line of duty. Fortunately we had a couple of solid businessmen on the team who were able to be independently - well, comfortable if not outright wealthy.

Re: Heroes and Nukes!

300 MT is larger than any real bomb which has ever been detonated even by the Soviet Union or the US. It's about 20' date='000 times bigger than the bombs dropped on Japan in WW2.[/quote']

 

Fancy that - I was just at Mount Saint Helens over the weekend - 300 Megatons is about the size (give or take - it's a bit larger) of the may 18th eruption in '80.

 

* The innermost zone of destruction around the mountain was about 8 miles in radius, an area in which virtually everything, natural or artificial, was obliterated or carried away.

 

 

* The next zone of destruction extended out as far as 19 miles from the volcano, an area in which the eruption flattened everything in its path. (thats where all those pictures of neatly flattened trees all pointing in the same direction come from).

 

* The outermost zone of the blast was an area where trees remained standing but were scorched by the hot gasses, extending 23 miles across and 19 miles long. The ashfall was deposited in eleven states.

 

If a villain requires such extreme measures to stop, then it would be logical for him to possess the means to counter the attack or even to use it for his own ends. "Thanks for delivering this toy, you fools! I'll now turn it against Manhattan!"

 

Or they detonate the bomb, but the clever villian has devices in place that will channel that destructive energy to jump start his SuperBattleDeathRobot, which he will then unleash on Manhattan.

 

Or, assuming they dont have degrees in advanced earth sciences and geolology and/or didnt bother doing research, the bomb sets off a much bigger problem. The island was positioned right on a geological nexus point where several faults meet. The explosion tears a rip in those faults, setting off eruptions and earthquakes all over the globe. Plate techtonics gone MAD - causing a massive fault to form and grow within the earth's crust, which threatens to split the earth in two if it is not stopped in time!

 

And heaven forbid if someone figures out that they were behind the accident!

Re: El Santo cartoon preview

You know - it's Santo. There's not a lot of localization needed to understand what's going on. Evil Doctor is cloning Mummies and Wolfmen and other sinister creatures, and Santo has to fight them with cool wrestleing moves (and rocket boots)!

I just wish they'd hurry up and post the remainder of episode 5! I gotta know if Santo escapes from the clutches of the Evil Doctor's wolfman!

Re: How would you do this?

Oh, right - there is a manuver for disarming. Thats what I get for trying to build a character over lunch without a book on hand.

I'll have to get a copy of the Martial Artist from my friend over the weekend, see if there's any other ideas to mine.

How much would this disad be worth -

Stealing a page from the Lone Ranger I'm building an archer who's a fair shot with her bow and arrow, but is downright devastating when it comes to shooting guns out of the hands of bad guys. Basically a whole bunch of combat levels that's only good against inanimate objects. Guns out of hands, switches on a wall 300 yards away, caps off beer bottles rolling down a hill - typical old school Western stuff here.

But the big question is how much is Only Against Inanimate Objects worth? -1/2? -1? -2? (actually a bigger question is - is that the right way to do this? Checking with Hero Designer, it doesn't appear that I can add disads to combat skill levels - unless I'm looking in the wrong place. Am I trying to do something illegal?)

Re: Luthor-type villian

God what a stunningly brilliant thread! It really inspired an insidious plot that I cant wait to unleash on my players - well, here. Let me show you:

These events, of course arent all one game. While some of them might be enough to flesh out for a whole session, much of this might be background flavor and side plots, too.

Event One -

As part of a bigger (and mostly unrelated) game, a tech minded villain kidnaps a scientist to act as slave labor on his high tech goodies (We'll call him Maximilian Powers - that sounds like a cool mastermind name). When the heroes hit the place and vanquish the bad guy, Powers gets into the villains database and steals as much design info as his flash drive will carry.

One quick trip to the patent office (since supervillains don't usually lock up their designs through legal channels), and he's set for the climb to power. Taking some proof of concept designs to investors, he gets enough backing to open the Powers Institute for Advanced Research a couple of months later.

Event Two -

Keeping his ear to the ground, he learns of another tech based supervillain (or perhaps group - kind of like Cobra or something). Stealing the "why bark if there are dogs available" and he lets the heroes know. While the fighting is going on, he and/or some minions steal more tech designs for reverse engineering.

Event Three -

The grand opening of the Powers Institute for Advanced Research main campus. He shows off the latest designs - that look IDENTICAL to the stuff that the heroes fought in encounter one and two. (Checking the dates on the patents, they were registered RIGHT after each event). Director Powers also announces a military contract, and that they will be working closely with the government on a secret project.

Event Four -

"The city owes you so much, so I had the tech boys whip these up out of gratitude", giving the heroes rings that bestow a minor power of some sort - flight, some defense, that sort of thing. Of course they also studies their DNA, sending that biometric data back to him. Their secrets are now his, for some future date.

Event five -

Powers has a press conference to show off the Battlesuit XK 2000, a 25 foot tall armored piloted behemoth. This of course, is inevitably stolen during the course of the demonstration. Powers arranged for the pilot to be an agent for a foreign government, who simply walked off with the prototype for a small fee of course. (And he gets the bonus of the insurance money to boot!)

The heroes, of course stop the theft in a spectacular manner, destroying the prototype ("sorry, no refunds" Powers says to the foreign government) and badly injuring the pilot. Being the concerned citizen that he is, Director Powers has the pilot moved to his state of the art medical facility for treatment.

Treatment, of course, is the complete rebuilding of the pilot into a bionic super cyberman-ish cyborg. Behold the birth of a new supervillain who has a built in grudge against the heroes.

Event Six -

Some months later, the Cybered-Man (I'll devise a better name later) shows up to beat down the heroes for revenge (Powers had told him that they were responsible for his condition - omitting the fact that he finished the job). Knowing their weaknesses, thanks to the biometric data from some time ago, he completely owns the team.

Here's the big moment, where the team figures out that Director Powers has been using them, and perhaps the Frankenstein moment where Cyberman is told (or is given enough information) what the real story is and turns on his creator. Unfortunately my creative juices have dried up by that point - how to keep Power's hands clean enough so that he's a viable Luthor mastermind for later? How to tip his hand that the rings were tainted and that he was the reason behind Cyberman's creation. Its one of those carefully balanced exposition moments that could totally blow up in my face. But played right, it could be really cool to pull off, too.

So - ideas? Changes? Suggestions?

Re: WWYCD: Dependent no more

This one I cant do.

Natsha is a second generation hero, and her father retired (more or less) from the Business. While built on more points (and not really worth more than 5 or so points on the DNPC chart), he does have all kinds of trouble seeking him out - he needs his butt saved on a regular basis. So, we cant power daddy dearist up.

Great Beyond has her sister Miranda, but she's already powered up too - she's the physical manifestation of an all powerful artifact that's the key to manupulating time and space (think Princess Astra and the Key to Time from the Doctor Who epsiode The Amargeddon Factor). She tries to keep her head down and avoid her destiny as much as possible and let GB do all the heavy lifting.

So, no - I have to sit this one out by the nature that it's already happened to me.

Re: Seacouver, Washington

What else? Beoing could easily have donated the team's aircraft and may also have perfected a single-stage-to-orbit space shuttle.

What else? Well, dont forget about this little company called Microsoft. In itself, that may not be a big deal, but a LOT of high tech industry has gravitated here because of them. I can think of a dozen video game companies in the area, there Adobe, there's Real Networks, Nintendo (who, to be fair were here before Microsoft got big) - a really long list. So, an "Western Washington Institute for Very Advanced Science" (and all the plot complications that entails) would be right at home here.

Other notable features would be several large military bases within a rocks throw of here - Bangor, Everett shipyards and Fort Lewis a little bit further away to the south. High tech+military hardware=SUPERVILLIANS!

Re: What would your inner geek pick?

The first stop would be the costume vendors. Disguising the Energy Being as a Goth Chick' date='Vulcan or elf. Something [b']VERY [/b]different from her normal human body. Nothing with an obvious mask. I want her to look like she belongs at the Con.

Problem - she's an attractive female? At a con? That pretty much precludes the possibility of blending in at all.

I'd probably go with the Time Lord package: fully functioning Tardis, intelligence enough to use it and a full 13 regenerations. Pre-Time War Time Lords, mind you.

Yeah, you could probably squeeze that out in just under 375 points. (Ok, so my Tardis may not be FULLY functional, saddled with that bloody distinctive features disad or something)

Re: The Godzilla Scenario

However... if they manage to knock off the antenna/helmet/rip out the device/ block the signal.... the creature is no longer affected by the scientist's signals?

And that means that the monster goes from a coordinated, single minded beast after a specific goal (say, eating Fort Knox or whatever) to a rampaging mindless beast busting up everything in it's path in the heart of downtown London/Tokyo/New York.

And of course now that the link between helmet and monster has been severed (or the helmet was broken in the fall), there's no way for them to control the monster again! Wheee!

Re: WWYCD?: Champions Universe Zombies

Well, the "Get Home" response is natural for all my characters, so I wont waste much energy on that. But along that same topic, I've always wanted to do a Zombie Holocaust survival horror game. The problem is that these things often turn out to be the end of the world, and so it would kind of kill the campaign. I mean I could send them to another world or something, but then the default automatically becomes "Survive until we get home." and I don't want that. I'd want to do a hole up somewhere and survive as long as you can game. No hope, no cure, no going home to the alternate dimension.

Like I said, kind of brings the game to a screeching halt after that.

Re: Calling all Archers

Well, its not one of the mainstream big two comic publishers, but one of the Big Signature Characters from City of Heroes is an archer: Manticore. He's kind of a cross between Green Arrow and Batman, but more of a smartass.

http://paragonwiki.com/index.php?title=Manticore.

Re: WWYCD: Arrested for TERRORISM!!

Well, it wouldnt apply to Natasha, with with her very public ID and all.

Great Beyond, on the other hand does have to protect her friends and wouldnt give up her ID - but she's also savvy. Knowing that in a world where you could find a shapeshifter for the right price, they'd better cough up some MUCH better evidence than a couple of pictures. One call to a good lawer and they better make DAMN sure the case is airtight.

Of course, if the goverment starts playing it's typical shanagans and denys her basic civil rights in the name of "justice" - little things like no speedy trial, no access to a lawer, inhumane interrorgation (AKA torture) and other such geneva convention violations - well, things would go downhill very fast. But she'd abide by the law as long as she can, knowing that Right is on her side.

Re: Feeling Charitable: Plot Hooks

Well, if it isn't sure a "Charity" but a "Cause":

Battered Women- Battered woman is being persude by Evil Villian for having heard too much of the plot. Keep the girl alive, find proof, stop the evil scheme.

Or turn that on its ear: Battered woman gets doused in radiation/hit by lighting/zapped by the cosmic ray (or whatever) and now is looking for some super powerd payback on her (soon to be ex) spouse. Murder is still murder, regardless of how justified it might be - so they have to protect the scumbag while having to deal with the problem.

Of course if she can't get to her spouse, perhaps she'll expand her desires of revenge on any abused woman. They'll have to stop her before something bad happens and/or she makes a mistake and deals out "justice" to an innocent person.

In the wake of the last couple of WWYCD's, where a binary yes/no moral choice was forced on the characters (and both choices were pretty distastful), I'd thought I'd put out something that allows some wiggle room.

(The following assumes some kind of Hero in the public eye that would work with the Government from time to time. Shadowy, lurk in the background heroes can disregard or modify as necessary)

There is a small island nation that's currently seeking a treaty with The Home Nation (in this case, we'll assume the USA). They'd like to open up trade relations, bring in western dollars into the local economy and export the rare mineral McGuffinainum, used in making cars or microchips or whatever. Diplomatic negotiations are underway, and the heroes have been asked to be bodyguards for the diplomats (or go along as a show of "Look at our cool heroes", or perhaps to assist the diplomats if they have any diplomatic and smooth talking skills. Either way, theyre tagging along)

Inside the borders of this nation, there happens to be an ages old law that simply states that a minor must obey any request of his/her father. Usually this just means washing the dishes and mowing then lawn, but there are some sick, twisted individuals who bend the law for their benefit, as you'll soon see.

As nearly successful negotiations are winding down, one of the characters gets a little bit of free time to themselves. While they are in a bar/market/place of relaxing, enjoying the local color, a side door flings open. This young girl (around 13 years old) comes running out, clutching the front of her ripped dress and crying. She is bleeding out of the side of her mouth and her left eye is freshly blackened, so badly swollen she can't see out of it. Shortly thereafter a large Cro-Magnon like man enters the bar through the same door, shirtless, tightening his belt and laughing.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what just happened. After a colorful discussion it is revealed that the little girl's father pimped her to the Neanderthal, using a loop-hole in the law that the minor has to do whatever his/her legal guardian demanded. Now, this is a third world country that doesn't have laws and governmental organizations set up to help the young/needy/elderly/etc, leaving the kid at the tender mercies of her father.

Everything transpiring is perfectly legal but it is ethically all screwed up. What does our hero do? Do they lash out at the sicko father, instantly turning him into a grease stain on the floor? Do they let it go because it is their duty to uphold the law regardless of how messed up it is?

Of course if they decide to say "screw the local laws, if the law, the hospitals, the Government, or the parents won't protect the girl, then the I will!" things get interesting. Technically it would be kidnapping in the eyes of the primitive law, but of it would be the right thing to do. CNN, on the other hand would have a field day with this. Imagine the headlines: "Super heroes kidnap young girl!" And of course - congratulations, you just committed a crime of international proportions, and ruined three years of negotiations - thus forcing the local embassy to be abandoned and the loss of vital mining rights. But at least the kid is safe.

So - what do you do?

Here's how my players dealt with the problem

Re: WWYCD: Fuel for the fire

Well, Natasha, who is used to being mostly invunerable and the toughest SOB on the block, would take the direct approach. She can't set the monster on fire for fear of the folks in the way, so she'd give the monster something else to chew on - and zip right into it's mouth. These things tend to be a lot less armored when youre inside it blasting away. As for getting out again - well, one thing at a time.

If it were the much more squishy and considerably less indestructable Great Beyond, I'd probably wander away from the table and go play on the computer. Frankly these binary yes/no situations dont fly well with me. "Kill the folks clutched in the hand or thousands die!" I prefer my moral choices to be a litte more open ended and allow creative thought.