Great Beyond

Re: Plot Seed: Six Places to Nuke When You’re Serious

If I were out for sheer terror instead of stratgic strikes, I'd go for setting one off in a high profile location - say the Superbowl or the final match of the World Cup. Nothing beats watching a stadium of people being instantly atomized on live TV in front of 4 or 5 billion viewers (in the case of the World Cup, at least).

Re: How would you build a time/space Superphone?

It was just a normal phone that was supercharged, so you could order a pizza from Pizza Hut half an hour ago and have it show up 30 seconds after you hang up - provided that you had the right "area code". So anyone could use it to call any phone, but it really needed a PHD in temporal physics to use it (or knowing what speed dial went to what number. )

And yeah, we occasionaly did have the relitive physics come into play - like when we had characters stuck waiting in the middle ages for an event of somesort. It was "Look, if I dont get off the phone now, you'll have to wait 6 months until you can come get us. So hang up and get us now, will ya?"

(First: for the record - I had a cell phone that could call anywhere in time and space LONG before the Doctor gave Rose one in the 05 series of Doctor Who, thank you very much. )

So I was inputting the numbers from an old character into hero designer who had a cellular phone that could call any point in time or space - basically Radio receive/transmit with the extradimensional advantage added on. Well, imagine my shock that it wouldn't let me do it, that I've been playing against the rules for years (or ignorant of a recent rules change). Hero Designer claims that Trans-D can only be applied to powers that target others.

So - the big money question is, how would you go about building this now.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

You would rather have died knowing you've left billions to suffer the fate of a lingering living death forcibly twisted into a race of souless killing machines that would likely go on to kill untold more beings under the dictactes of an insane being that thought itself a God?

Well, that was the whole point of series 1/27 - that sometimes victory can come at too high of a price. Pulling the trigger on the Gamestation would have undone all the recovery, the survivors guilt, the trauma the Doctor had undergone - it would have meant that he learned nothing.

"You would make a good Dalek" was far closer to the truth that it should have been.

Spoilers for the end of Season 2/28 follow:

The Dr has killed and let people die (Ms Trampoline face or whatever she was. the last "Human" he let her die horribly, for example) so his CAK isn't total.

Yeah, that’s a popular misconception of the Doctor. I like the way Terrance Dicks: "he is never cruel or cowardly, and even in times of war, he is a man of peace. He never bullies his enemies, but outsmarts them."

But he will kill. Violence is always the method of last resort, but the Doctor will take it in the defense of himself or in the defense of others. Say what you will about Warriors of the Deep, but the Doctor trying desperately to broker peace between the humans and the aliens - and him standing amid the dead after the final battle with the line "There should have been another way. . . " speaks volumes about him.

(I'll point out that Cassandra was a special case - Doctor Nine was still very much damaged goods, and had lost his moral compass. Doesn’t count in my book)

This is the NOW' date=' the future has not been writen, it can't be until either the hero acts or doesn't act. At that point the Hero can't have an effect on a future that hasn't been writen.[/quote']

 

Well, with the weight of tampering with timeline and history taken out of the equasion, then GB proceeds full speed ahead as listed a couple of posts back.

 

Taking the time machine away from Natasha however throws a spanner in the works for her. Guess she'd have to fall back to normal methods - perhaps useing her weird science pool to make the towers desoild, or growing REALLY huge with a pillow to catch the planes with.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

GB:

What if your character is aware that the actions taken, in fact the character's presence in the universe, means that this is a new, alternate universe? That it became a whole different future the instant the PC arrived?

If that were the case - or if she had insider information that stopping the attacks would indeed lead to a better world - then she would go for the gusto certanly. She'd be in New York and DC in a hot second, meddleing with the best of them.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

It boils down to that some people believe that a hero is duty bound to fight the evil in front of him, and try to be there to prevent whatever the negative consequences may be....A hero does not say "This is how it is supposed to happen."

Except unless how it was suppose to happen has a better long term benefit than then short term does. And since the Doctor had insider information, I'll trust his judgment. Besides, he managed to come up with a 4th solution, other than the options the Time Lords gave him. The Daleks constant distraction with Davros - who is now alive in the modified future - kept them from achieving their final destiny.

In the case of The Parting of Ways - that was a no win situation for the Doctor. Either way, the human race was dead - either gutted and filleted to be Daleks (those "lucky" enough to survive the process, that is) or dead at the hands of the Doctor. If I were him, if I were going to go, I'd rather not have had the blood of an entire world on my hands.

Bah. Do you seriously imagine that if terrorists could get a nuke and the wherewithall to smuggle it into Pittsburgh that they'd stop and think "Wait, we already toppled the WorldTradeCenter. I think we've done enough, don't you?".

Well, no, I dont think they'd have stopped. However, I dont think middle east terrorism is in a position to roll a nuke into the superbowl at the moment. But that's mostly a direct response to the attacks. If the plane hijackings hadn't gone down, if various political forces hadn't come into play to deter terrorism, if the world rolled on exactly like it always had been on September 10th, then yes - they'd probably try something again. Heck, Ben Laden had been pretty vocal in his determination to hit the towers again ever since that parking garage bombing didn't do the job the first time - so 9-11 wasn't exactly a surprise to me when it rolled around.

So looking at the thinking (from admittedly a very small sample): first attempt = small bomb, second attempt = bigger bomb, third attempt = biggest bomb. I'd figure that the next time out of the gate, Ben Laden would really go over the top.

What's more that reasoning applies to every single act of commission or omission. You never know what the long term consequences will be.

Again - taking action in the present is a different thing than doing so in the past. To quote a wise muppet, the future is always in motion. Free will when the outcome is not determined is fine. Messing around with the past on the other hand, is a whole 'nother ball game.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

Ahoy - discussion of the (as of yet unscreened in the US) Christmas Invasion impending. Avert ye eyes, lest ye be spoiled!

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

My point was "The Now" is relative. When you are in a time frame that is now. Once time travel comes into the picture everything becomes relative. If you are concerned with "big picture" you have to think in those terms. After all' date=' from the perspetice of 2001 (in this alternate universe) SHE's the one that doesn't exist yet and is but a possibility. When you change frames of refrence, your understanding has to change. If there is no fate, there is no reason not to try and change things. If things were "meant" to be set then there would be no capabiity to change there and there is no garuntee that any change to the time is going to result in a larger disaster. Making that choice is the burden of power. This scenario gives the character that burden. When 9/11 becomes your NOW then it becomes your problem just as your action in the current NOW are you problem since they impact the future, yours and others. IF the time line can be changed it can be changed for the better or for the worse. Its less a "second chance to roll the dice" but more a reboot. The story doesn't have to end the same, the natural order allows it to be changed so there is no "right" version as that would change from your point of reference.[/quote']

 

 

The problems that we're running into here - at least from real world standpoint - is that we're having to logically discuss a completely illogical field of science. We're both right, and neither of us can rationally explain our point because there is no rationality to time travel.

 

That said - there's no right way to know which way to jump. There could be a Hitler somewhere on the 98th floor who sparks war and disaster and genocide for the next hundred years, or there could be a Gandhi on the 87th floor who leads his people to freedom and begins a golden utopia for the whole of mankind. It's Schrödinger's cat taken to a whole new level.

 

For better or for worse, the die is cast - and to take that kind of responsibility, that it could be Hitler instead of Gandhi - is so far out of GB's league, she couldn’t do it. Don't get me wrong - she'd agonize over the decision, but ultimately she'd keep her hands off.

 

I've alway wondered why its assumed any alteration in the time stream will end badly. There as much chance of a good things happening or things just evening out over time. Unless you assume that the universe operates by a grand ieffeble plan then there isn't a "right way" for things to turn out or if it does then your actions were probably taken into a account in this grand plan in the first place (or such could be argued).

 

I think its mostly because things going horribly wrong - IE, Back to the Future 2, Father's Day from the 05 series of Doctor Who, and so on - happen more often than not because conflict and setting things right make for a more interesting story than "Killing Hitler as a baby brought about a utopia for a thousand years".

 

(Oh, and for the record - when I run/play time travel games, I prefer the standpoint of Rubber time - meaning that the players can change things, interact with the past and have fun with the setting, and the universe wont colapse and when they get home Dinosaurs wont be ruling the world. Basicly - what serves the story I'm trying to tell. If logic and science get in my way, then to hell with them)

 

 

****EDIT***

Ok, another spin for you all -

 

In the Doctor Who episode Genesis of the Daleks, the Doctor is sent back in time by the Time Lords to prevent a future where the Daleks (for those not in the know - one of the most evil, destructive races in the galaxy - think the Borg if they weret a bunch of wussies and if they were bent on extermination instead of assimilation) will eventually conquer the universe. He is to either learn a weakness to exploit against the Daleks, to divert their nature enough to make them less aggressive creatures, or failing all that - prevent their creation.

 

Having exhausted the first two options, the Doctor prepares to wipe the Daleks production facility out. All he has to do is touch two wires together and the Daleks are destroyed. However, the Doctor hesitates - does he have the right to commit genocide? He knows that many future worlds became allies because of their fear of the Daleks, that out of great evil a greater good will come. That if he wipes the Daleks out, he becomes no better than they are.

 

So although the Daleks will create havoc and destruction for millions of years, despite that they will destroy his own people - he doesn't prevent their creation. Does that make him any less a hero?

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

I see where you are coming from but to play devil's advocate how does Great Beyond justify taking any action at all? The present is just the past to someone else. Any action at all can have unforseen negative consequences in the future.

Ah, but you see - time travel and The Now are two different ball games all together. If the present is just the past to somebody else, then it's someone else's problem then too.

It all comes down to free will. To steal a line from the terminator, There is no fate but what we make. If GB were doing the hero thing in aught one, then you can bet your bottom dollar she'd be in New York making all the difference she can, but to mess with the natural order of things, to get a second chance to roll the dice, well that aint right.

If you want to take that to an extreme, the character's mere presence in this world has already set balls in motions, dominoes falling, etc that didn't happen before from the moment they appeared and interacted with anything if only only the infintesimal level. If the character can't get back to their present they can't avoid making changes. They already have from the start, from that point on its just a matter of (potential) scale.

Well, if we're running with an "Oh no, you stepped on a butterfly! Now the dinosaurs are going to rule the future world!" scenario, or if a Higher Power came and said "Sam and Al are currently busy. We need someone to set right what went wrong", then yeah - she'd throw in with the best of them. But until then, she'd maintain a low profile and minimize her impact on the past the best she could.

ASSUMING she got the green light to put right what once went wrong - step one would be a bomb threat to the Pentagon, and to pull the fire alarms on both towers about an half an hour before the first crash. That should be long enough for everyone to exacuate the building, but not long enough to determine that there's no fire and send everyone back in.

With the buildings clear, she'd intercept the planes far enough out to deflect their course from impact. She should fly fast enough to catch a jet, and jigging the tail rudder should be easy enough - and some ice into the engine should force a landing without crashing the plane. Then depending if a 250 MPH top speed is fast enough to get to DC (I'm not sure of the distance between the two points), haul ass to the Pentagon and do the same for plane three.

Now - the problem comes with the 4th plane. The only reason the passengers revolted was because of the news of what had happened. Without that motivation, the would be no uprising and plane would probably reach its target - and we don't know what that would have been. So hang out in DC, try and spot the plane and force it down - but depending on where it winds up going, she may not be able to react in time.

So end result - 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

Actually what I expected I have gotten' date=' Heroes being Heroes. I can understand a hero stepping in to save as many lives as they can. What I can not see is a HERO!!! not doing it.[/quote']

 

Like I said - big picture. Not stopping the attacks does not necessarily make a character less heroic.

 

Lets use the Titanic as an example - we've got a hundred years of perspective to work from. The sinking of the Titanic meant several major changes in nautical safety: enough lifeboats for EVERY passenger, a uniform policy in distress signal flares, a 24 hour watch on the radio (the California's radio operator went to bed 2 hours before the iceberg hit), standardized distress calls - and it marked a milestone in the end of that big, opulent Rockefeller and JP Morgan lifestyle.

 

Now - lets say your characters is A HERO!!! and stops this tragedy. None of this would happen, or would happen much later (well, except for the Old School Money lifestyle - which was on the way out anyway. This was just the deathblow). So next time instead of 1,523 victims, it could be 3,000 people. Or perhaps it proves that over the top opulence isn't dead, and that lifestyle rolls on through the 20's, preventing the great depression (and having a ripple effect on WWII). Or JJ Astor doesn't die, meaning that he leads his financial empire a few more years - bringing about major impact in the world economy. Suddenly saving 1,500 lives means major alterations to the time line.

 

Same thing here. So you stop the planes and the towers remain standing. The Terrorists, now REALLY honked off at the White Devils try again in a couple of years - but this time they smuggle a nuke into the Superbowl. Instead of just the towers, 10,000 steelers fans and a major city pay the price. How do you feel with yourself now, Hero?

 

 

 

GB wouldnt stop the attacks because she knows she's not wise enough to know which outcome is better, and not arrogant enough to play god like that.

Re: WWYCD: Lost in a world without Supers; 9/11/2001

The problem here is - well, it's kind of like the Titanic sinking. It's a major temporal event with ripples (good and evil) all over the time stream. To start playing god with time like that will probably lead to a MUCH worse event later on down the line. So someone like Great Beyond - with the eye on the much bigger picture - would probably let the events stand as they happened.

However, she would be in the background, quietly gathering evidence on what REALLY happened. Why did WTC building 7 collapse? Why were there reports of the sounds of bomb-like explosions going off. Why does the wreckage at the Pentagon not match up with what should have crashed - that sort of thing.

One way or another, she would either gather enough evidence to prove or dispel the rumors of conspiracy that linger around the events.

***EDIT***

Forgot about my other - Natasha. She's a simple brick, with simple needs - a good rumble. She'd book a flight on plane 1 and beat the stuffing out of the hijackers and then land the plane. Since it's not her world, time stream be damned - she'd take a week, build a time machine (her PHD in temporal physics and Weird Science should be more than enough to work with such primitive non-super equipment), and go back in time and whup ass on plane two's hijackers.

Wash, rinse, repeat until everyone is rounded up. Then she'd go yell at Bush for being a boob (a boob in general, not about specificly this event).

A simple question - putting aside the lack of air and assuming they made it down (reasonably) intact, what would the damage be for a character being swallowed by a giant monster. I guess the simple way of putting it - how much damage does taking a swim in hydrochloric acid do?

Assuming a giant monster pulls a sarlac to a character's Boba Fett (ignoring the thousand years of torment ), how is long is reasonable for them to get out?

Re: Help m Brainstorm: when Halloween goes bad

Ah, but where would the fun be in that?

I was thinking that it wouldn't be a complete transform into the costume. The traits and powers would be there, but the underlying personality would more or less be the same. Someone who wont kill dressed as Leatherface wont instantly turn into a chainsaw wielding maniac and slaughter everyone in arms reach. One of the characters is shy but came dressed as a pirate. So she gets to be a bold, brash swashbuckler for the evening - that sort of thing.

(At least for the PC's. The throngs of Wolfmans and Devils out there get a stronger effect.)

So I was running our hero game last weekend - which was taking place on Halloween (last year, to be exact). The general thrust of the plot was a Evil Cult was using the 31st as a perfect time to summon a demon - typical Samhain shenanigans, I know. As we were getting close to the cliffhanger for the evening, as the bad guys were about to bring forth the darkness (the good guys were still at the Halloween party), I hit on a brilliant idea.

One of the side effects of the spell is a transformation. Everyone in costume takes on the characteristics of whatever they were wearing! So someone dressed as Frankenstein gets big, dumb and strong (and has a fear of fire). Someone dressed as a Ghostbuster gets Doctor Spengler level of smarts and a fully functional unlicensed nuclear accelerator on their back. That sort of thing.

The problem with these cool spur of the moment ideas, is I have no idea what to do with it. I'll probably delay the Big Monster's appearance for an hour or two and let the PC's do some cleanup - but I thought I'd turn to you guys for some more brainstorming. . . . .

Re: Reality TV and your Hero

Actually -

(spoilers for Marvel's Civil War series follow, provided that I get the background color right )

Something similar was the starting point of the current crisis running in the Marvel universe - a team of supers was grandstanding for a reality show crew along on one of their by the numbers busts. The fight rapidly got out of hand, and one of the bad guys blew up - well, the body count is somewhere around 600 civilians. And all of that was on live TV.

Whoops. . . .

Re: Just a simple ? When you design a game world.

1. Do you spend time working out the backstory/history first or later?

2. Do you set up your limits for you PC's first or later?

 

Basically how do you do it?

Well, I havent set up a champions game ever, but I have done several Star Wars games - not quite the same thing, but close enough. What I've done first is set up the playground. Playing in a canned universe, the Big Picture backstory is done for me, so what I'll do is come up with a sector the players will be hanging out in. Flesh out the worlds with broad strokes, come up with a general theme of the sector and that sort of thing. Once I get that done, I find out what characters I'll be working with and adapt what I have so far - see if I can tailor anything to what they'll be playing. And of course leave things open ended enough that I can adapt as the game develops.

Assuming that I was building a world for Champions, I'd probably do something similar. Built the home city (plus a couple of other near by areas), breaking the neighborhoods up into fleshed out chunks. Throw a couple of colorful landmarks into the mix ("Oooh, here's where the theme park goes! Everyone needs a theme park!") and go from them. Refine as the characters come in and build as I go.

Simple, no?

Re: WWYCD - The Night of the Dead

Glad you are watching Babylon 5.

Oh, I've seen B5 - but actually I wasnt thinking of that episode when I hit upon this idea. But yeah, I did kind of lift this note for note, didnt I?

So I've got an idea to start a game off with a bang - dropping a plane on downtown Seattle. It serves two purposes - gives the players that "I'm a real hero" glow as they save folks on live TV, and moves the plot along by distracting the heroes so that the Evil Mastermind can pull off a crime at the same time and set the game in motion.

While I have some ideas on events and takes on the scenario, I thought I'd pick your guy's brain and see if we can brainstorm some more good ideas. Here's what I have so far: The mastermind has arranged it so that a 747-ish sized plane taking off from the nearby airport will lose control on take off (small bomb in the engine, Snakes on a Plane - whatever). So suddenly the plane takes a dive, clips one of the taller buildings on the way down - and is heading right towards the center of downtown.

That’s when the heroes appear on the scene.

* One of the strong fliers could can catch up to and divert the crippled plane away from downtown out over Puget Sound. That not only stops more property damage on land, but it has the happy bonus of saving the lives of everyone on board the plane.

* On the way down, the wing of plane clipped a radio tower on top of one of the tall buildings. It fell, but got wedged against the building across the street - threatening to fall at any moment. They'll need to secure the antenna or evacuate underneath it as it falls (complete with mother clutching her baby carriage screaming "my baby!")

* People dangling from high places - window washers outside the building that got hit are now literally hanging from a thread and will need saving.

So there's the starter - and really, with the right setup and execution, that may be enough - but I'm open to more suggestions on how to torment the players.

So I was hella bored at work and started brainstorming crazy ideas and came up with this perfect for my first WWYCD:

Once every hundred years the stars and moons are aligned just right so that the shaman of a small Aztec (or Inuit, Chinese or whatever mystic religion would fit best with your campaign) village can perform a ritual that allows the spirits of the dead to return for one night and visit the living. In the past, the effect had always been localized to the immediate vicinity, but for some reason - perhaps the ritual went wrong, or the Shaman got ambitious - but this time the effect is global. So for several hours in the middle of the night, every single person on the planet gets a visit from beyond the grave.

The spell is a begin one; no armies of the dead feasting on the living or anything horrific like that. And the effect is temporary - 12 or so hours later, everything goes back to the way it was. The living don't get to choose who visits them, but it will be someone significant to them.

Who would visit your character, and what would the two do? Would it be a night of wild passionate sex with a lover who prematurely died? Would it be a drug using brother who died of an overdose? A Golden Age hero who served as your insperation when you were a kid? A killer gets a heart to heart with his victim? Do they spend the evening ignoring each other hoping the 12 hours runs out quickly?

Re: Genre-crossover nightmares

Would I be a bad person for suggesting Fist of the Northstarblazers?

You get hit by the Wave Motion Gun, your head swells up and explodes half an hour later.

Or Speed 2 Racer - where the Mach 5 cant go under 50 miles an hour or Spridle and Chim-Chim get into the trunk

Re: Input on a bunch of bad guys?

Thornbloom -

* Seeds of confusion (mind control, causing enmies to attack each other)

So what - assuming an average PC ego (or perhaps slightly higher than average) - would be a good level for this? If I remember my tables, you need at least 30 to get this kind of effect, plus ego and defenses and whatnot. So would 10D be about right?

Also - since it's a physical spore and not a telepathic mind control thingie, is there a way to base it off of something other than Thorny's ego? Say a Dex to hit the target?

Re: Champions Christmas Adventure Seeds!

12 - A reliable mystic brings you absurd news. A "real" Santa Claus is coming this year' date=' delivering toys to all the world's good children. Unfortunately, he plans to stuff all of the bad children into his sack. They will then be kicked and punched by his large assistants and sold as slaves. Can your characters stop Christmas?[/quote']

 

Actually, there's mythology around this one already. The russians had two Santas, the nice one (who delivered presents and stuff) and Black Peter - who stuffed bad children into his sack and took them away.

 

***edit***

My bad - it was the Finns who had this, not the Russians. Wikipedia for the win: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_peter

Re: Concepts you wish your players would play

Well' date=' we mere mortals don't have super-intelligence, so it's hard to imagine super intelligence in any way other than Wile E. Coyote, who also has 100,000d6 Unluck.[/quote']

 

No, no - just 2D unluck. . . . always on.

Re: Input on a bunch of bad guys?

So I whiped up a couple of backgrounds, in a moment of bordom. Now, they're still a bit CoH-centric, since thats the uinverse we're playing in at the moment. But you non-gamers should still make sense of it all.

THORNBLOOM

Allow me to shed some light on my origins for the dim-witted meatbags not paying attention. Ever heard of the Heliconia Psittacorum Andromeda? Of course not, you stupid mammal - it’s a rare and exotic plant from deep in the Amazon. Ever heard of Crey Industries? Most likely. Well, what do YOU think happens when the mad scientists begin tampering with the genetic structure of a rare tropical plant with unusual properties?

Yeah, you got it. Me.

So while your narrow, animal-centric point of view would make out to be a super villain, I like to think of myself as a random cruelty generator. See, Hamidon got it all wrong - just sitting there, waiting to destroy the pathetic meatbags that show up to fight. You need to take a more proactive stance if you're going to exterminate the human race. Frankly I look forward to experimenting with all new ways of murdering and harming innocents everywhere.

OVERFIEND

General Fernando Chavez (Overfiend to his political friends and foes) was president for life of Costa Muerte, a small third world country in South America. It was a pleasant enough place, a perfect vacation getaway for all kinds of scum and villainy until Chavez attracted the attention of a power that cared even less for human rights than he did - the United States Government.

Labeled a terrorist (and worse) by Bush and his cronies, Chavez found himself "extracted" from his country by a special ops commando team. He was held in the maximum security political prisoner wing of the Ziggurat without trial for months. When the opportunity to escape arose, Overfiend seized with both hands - killing only eight guards on his way out the front gate.

While freedom was at hand, there was one problem. During his absence, Overfiend's regime was overthrown. Now an exile from his homeland, Chavez turns his attention to carving out a brand new empire in the land of opportunity.

Ok, here's a widget from season 27/1 of Doctor Who that I thought would be fun to number crunch into hero terms:

Psychic paper - a piece of paper that shows whoever is reading it whatever the holder wants them to see, but also has the disadvantage of revealing private thoughts if the user lets their mind wander. It has also shown the ability to display telepathic messages from sources external to the user (like the Face of Boe in New Earth). Torchwood Institute personnel receive psychic training and are able to see through psychic paper (Army of Ghosts). It is also shown to somehow unlock an electronic pass reader.

So - how would you do this? I imagine that Images through a focus seems most likely. How would you do the "must remain attentive, and not hit on Captain Jack" disad?

Any other brilliant (excuse me - fantastic) ideas?