misterdeath

New Dr Destroyer vs the entire old 4th edition Champions team.

Not just Seeker's going to get his ass kicked.

D

Thanks Steve!

Now I've got to go post it on the Hero Designer board as a bug.

D

Ok, my Martial Artist just earned himself a new maneuver, Grappling Block.

Now, I get that it's not an Abort, so I hold action, Block and then Grab.

What I don't understand is if/how my DCs add to the Maneuver.

Let's say I've got + 8 DCs. Does that raise his Str with the Grab to +40, or doesn't it have an effect at all?

D

Re: Sorry!

Originally posted by AGLAR

I killed another topic!

 

 

Can we pretend I didn't send that last post?

We can pretend anything you like.

How 'bout ...

You didn't kill the thread. um, um, let'see.

That much back hair is a good thing. hmmm. nah.

How bout ... The Democrats do to have a viable presidential cantidate. erm. well.

Morningstar ... nah, too easy.

D

Re: Redshirts...

Originally posted by RDU Neil

I love the idea of a game like "Redshirts."

 

Like a more serious/dramatic version of Paranoia. I think the idea of the game would be "survive long enough to get promoted from the security detail!"

 

Y'know... this would make an EXCELLENT game to run at a Con.

Well, when Icon trek came out, they recommended that the PCs not be the upper brass (a wildly divergent view from FASA trek) but be the junior officers.

This is the first thing I ran. "You're all members of the security detail, you accompany the Captain on missions. Or stand on the bridge. Or something."

Great for a one shot.

D

Well, yeah, you could just construct it as follows.

24 8 Skill Levels with Martial Art.

12 8 penalty skill levels with Sweep.

Heck, just make 12 skill levels with Martial Arts.

That's 36 points, and really allows you to spank someone. mainly because when you're putting the beatdown on someone with your Martial Strike you can put all the regular levels in OCV or what have you. (Ha! 20 OCV! take that!) Lots of flexibility.

But, and this is a biggie, there are a lot of GMs that don't let 3 point skill levels with HTH stuff apply to ranged attacks.

If that's your GM, then while you've devoted all your levels to HTH DCV, you've still got 1/2 DCV vs Ranged Attacks.

So, while you've opened the whole can o wup arse on the 5 bad guys you've dropped into, the 3 other ones coordinate fire on your DCV 4 (in this example) butt.

Purpose built DCV levels get away from that, since they always apply for DCV.

Any DCV.

Now, you could just buy +4 DCV levels for the 20 points. You've got a 12 DCV against everything, and 6 while Sweeping. Instead of 8 and 8.

And that may well be the most efficient use of the points. You're right. Unless you're planning on sweeping a lot.

And if you weren't, why would you be worrying about creating a sweep based power anyways.

You still may be better off with an HA, depending on the character.

20 Str, Offensive Strike, 4d6 HA, Autofire (+1/2), HA(-1/2) is 12 dice autofire. Counting that up, 10 for the str, 5 for the os, 20 for the HA is 35. You don't have to spend for Rapid Fire (which I forgot in my examples), and if you're only planning on hitting a couple of people, then the PSLs won't matter as much.

D

Um, CV limit campaigns?

With an 8 DCV, I can buy +8 DCV levels (40 active), only while Sweeping (-1) for 20 points.

That makes my DCV while Sweeping (8 +8)/2= 8.

Then I can buy Penalty Skill Levels to Offset the OCV cost. +8 PSL vs Sweep only should be 12 points.

That gives you 32 points spent for hitting 5 people at full OCV and DCV.

With whatever attack you want to use.

If you make the DCV levels a -1 1/2 lim instead of a -1, then the cost of the + 8 DCV is 16 points, for a total of 28 points.

Is 32 or 28 a more appropriate cost for this power?

Compare it to Autofire on your attack. Assuming 10 dice (50 points). Autofire: 5 as a naked advantage costs 25 points. the PSLs still cost 12 so that's 37 points.

Wait, let's do a HA. 4d6 HA, Autofire: 5 costs 20X1.5= 30 active, 20 real. PSLs make that 32. (I'm assuming that you've got a 20 str, and use a martial strike to get 10 dice)

So, it seems to me that a -1 limitation on the skill levels seems to price things out about right.

D

Originally posted by JmOz

My way of handling it is somewhat odd

 

I make everyone pay three points for a perk called member of Team, as a member it gives them access to a base and a vehicle (or fleet of) of my design, the whole thing is if they get a aircraft it might be supersonic or have stealth capabilities but it will not be a combat vehicle, the base might have some defences but again it is not a fortress.

 

This way if you have a Batman type character who wants to be using vehicles etc...he has to pay for the whole thing instead of using the x2 rule, but still makes the character chip in some

FWIW, this is the system I use too.

The points for the Member of a Team perk range from 1 to 20, depending on the resources the team has available, ranging from a meeting place in an old warehouse, and a used icecream truck as a vehicle for a point a piece, to an organization with large land, underwater, and satellite bases, with high speed supersonic underwater spaceworthy transports, and one warp capable ship for just such an emergency for 20 points.

Of cource, the vehicles are more plot devices, than combat things (if Steelhawk wants a fighter plane, he'd best pony up the points--otherwise, well, "damn, there goes another plane.")

D

Originally posted by Champsguy

Yes, my munchkin-fu has been honed by years of dealing with the most back-stabbing, power hungry group of social misfits to ever roll the dice.

 

It's really sad when gamemasters let Con-El into their game without even batting an eye. "Well, at least you didn't get too cheesy..."

Ha. You see, I started gaming with a group of scientists. We approached everything from a min-max standpoint. Maximum effect for minimum points.

Everything was really nice between us, we're just all point whores and rules lawyers.

Not antisocial munchkins.

D

Kid Fist.

I wanna see 5th compatible Kid Fist.

D

Originally posted by AGLAR

Sure, a more realistic game means creating a new character far more often. A significant amount of work in Hero's case. The tradeoff is that you really FEAR combat. You don't hack/slash everything in sight because the cleric can bring you back from the dead. You pick fights carefully, knowing that the enemy could get a lucky hit every time he swings that sword or shoots that .357mag. I think that more pure roleplaying ensues when the object isn't to slaughter everything that moves.

 

Just my 2-cents, sorry for the sermon.

Got yer back on this one. (not literally, it's the hair you know, I just can't compete.)

I'm running a 3E game. The party is all 8th level.

I toddle out a 12th level ranger riding a dire elk, with 3 4th level ranger cat people riding dire lions, and 3 4th level dog people riding dire wolves.

The stupid bastards wouldn't run. The druid and his bear charged. The Half dragon barbarian moved into combat, the rogue ran like hell, so he could sneak back, and the sorceress, well she kind of hid so she could lay down the artillery.

I did my level best to splatter each and every single one of them, because they had the D&D "there are no concequences" mindset. "I've got a 30 AC, let's go."

They found out that an 8th level party does not survive a CR 20 odd encounter. I killed the druid, and the barbarian, the rogue and the sorceress were out of spells and ammo, and down to the single digits on hit points.

Darn crappy Will saving throw and the big Ranger guy would have finished them off too. Now the two surviving characters have to figure out how to get everyone repaired, which de-rails the mission.

Sigh. Thanks for letting me rant.

D

Jar Jar are us...

Originally posted by AGLAR

Why would anyone want to do anything but jam a plasma rifle down Jar Jar's gullet and duct-tape the trigger down?!?!

 

Tell me you weren't serious!!! Reassure me that you haven't played a JAR JAR clone!!!

Actually, I haven't. Haven't been playing much. Running some, but not playing.

But, imagine the intrepid heroes investigating suspicious deaths of local skiiers in Vale. Imagine toddling out, "Meesa Sorry, Meesa no gotsa passporta" at the airport gate. Sneaking around the Chalet, [bANG, CRASH] "Meesa Sorry, Meesa tripped."

Now picture the smiles and cheering when Meesa gets skewered by the Alpine Vampire.

You get to irritate the hell out of people, and they get vicarious thrills by imagining Jar Jar having both his arms pulled off by something trying to eat his head.

Bwahahahahahaha.

D

Re: Re: re: Organization vs Characters.

Originally posted by Law Dog

Not a bad idea, Mister Death, but it is so contrary to why most people are playing RPG's. Most people what to do neat things and make witty quips and then get mad/disappointed/unenthused when something happens to their character. Even in most fiction we read and watch, we are usually more interested in the character than the organization/group.

 

Case in point - Sliders. When the original four were there, it was a wonderful show, but every time they lost somebody, the show became worse. That last season was a damned joke. I mean, I watched it because I still liked Remmie, but I wasn't real interest in the rest of the show anymore.

 

If you have too high of a turnover (character, not player) in any campaign, it starts changing everything.

Well, yeah, that's why the focus has to be off the individuals, and on the agency.

You can't be James Bond, you have to be Agent of MI6. You can't be Elliot Ness, you have to be FBI Crimebuster #3.

There's a lot of role-playing freedom in knowing that your character won't survive, FWIW.

You can play the 80ish narcoleptic museum curator who mumbles a lot, knowing that next session, you'll be playing someone else.

Or, you can play that Jar Jar Binks clone, knowing that next session you won't have to.

But, yeah, most people don't like to not have the same characters over and over again.

It takes the right group of players, and the right GM. It's almost more work creating that kind of campaign rather than a more standard character.

D

They did a big update of King Cobra in Champions Presents #2. it had King and Queen Cobra, and a bunch of other snake themed people. King Cobra's dementia has progressed, and he believes he's the reincarnation of King Arthur. He's even got Merlin's daughter as Naga, his pet witch.

Things to make you go Hmmmm.

D

I've done this a couple of times, and it's worked pretty well. One of the players got pissed when her best friend (IRL and game) drilled her and turned her over to the Twisted Genetic Engineer for experimentation purposes. And then Attacker went back to base not remembering anything that happened.

Her (the drilled player) husband bore a grudge, even after things worked out for the best. But that's in his psych profile, and would be a likely response to any situation.

So, all in all, depends on your players. If you've got a good player, who can role-play the differences between personalities, and the conflict between herself, it can be loads of fun.

If you've got a player that's using it as an excuse to screw the party over, well that's a rough thing.

D

Wow, twice in one day. Someone check the weather forcast for hell.

I concur with Agent X. Pseudoarthurian mysticism does not mix with scientifically mutated elite.

If you have to make a Naga character, give her some sort of reality altering power.

Magic just doesn't fit the style of the organization. It's kind of like having powered armor goons with blaster rifles for DEMON.

D

Low level Flight, only in contact with a surface; representing extreme balance. (Tightrope, no problem)

Lots of crunchy goodness of this type in Ninja Hero.

D

Yep, those are good ones.

Blind Sight is Combat Sense (I know where you are and so, can paste you anyways.)

Defense Maneuver is "You don't get a free shot because I'm unaware."

(By MP I meant.

45 Martial Arts.

3u 1)strikes HA 6d6 0 End (+1/2), HA (-1/2)

3u 2)holds Str +30, 0 End (+1/2), Only for Grabs, Holds, Throws, and Disarms (-3/4)

what have you other stuff (Desolid makes a wonderful ultimate dodge, and Force Wall make a nice super block))

D

You may at least want to consider looking at Ninja Hero. There are several Martial Artists of varying levels.

Skipping redundant maneuvers is a good idea to get bang for the buck. I like to use either Defensive Strike or Offensive Strike as the basis for the attacks. Or a custom Strike Maneuver (+2 OCV, +2 DCV, Str Strike, 4 points). You can make up the damage with DCs (for Defensive) and Skill levels to make up the OCV and DCV differences (if you use Offensive).

If you really find you're spending a lot of points, you may want to consider a multipower, kinda like Teleios's.

D

Re: Insomnia, thou art my muse

Originally posted by Hermit

It really is amazing what strange forces you can use as inspiration. This was unearthed only recently.

(Warning: Not for the faint of Heart)

-------------

Once, there was a mighty archmage known as Deeojay, and his spells were strange and arcane. Said to be a HERO among Magi, his spells called on strange gods of great power, but greater benevolence.

 

40 "The Dreadful Dictates of Dewatts!"- Presence +40, Does Knockback (+1/4), Incantations ("Get to work! or somesuch; -1/4)

A rebuke and motivation combined, the caster gains a terrible aspect, as if he held the very fates (or paychecks) of those about him in his hands!

 

45 "The Subtle Shapings of S'Slong" 2d6 Major Transform, Improved Target group (Ideal version of old self;+1/4) Difficult to Dispel (+1/4)

There is nothing the Subtle Shapings of S'Slong can not improve, or so some say. Floating from mystic's hands come odd symbols that look like hexes, and the number 5.

 

44 "The Booting Bolt of BenEss!"- Extradimensional movement, 1 dimension (Known as 'Mundania' by some), Usable Against Other as Attack (+1), Ranged (+1/2),Trigger(When certain line is crossed +1/4)Gestures (Drawing a line;-1/4)

This spell of banishment is frightening, but was rarely (some say never) invoked. A clear warning is given in the form of a mystic line drawn by the spell cast. Should that ward be breeched however, exile is the violator's reward. It maybe difficult for him to return to the sacred halls.

 

..........

Additional Note: There maybe more and darker spells still from Deeojay's librams, but somethings man was simply not meant to know.

Wow. That's too cool. I'll have to use those.

D

Originally posted by BNakagawa

Would you allow a PC to purchase:

 

Detect: answer to any question scenario poses, sense, discriminatory, analyze.

 

No? Why not? How is that any different than allowing someone to put Knowledge Skills in a VPP? or simply some 20 point skill-to-end-all-skills.

 

There's a STOP sign on Universal Translator for a reason.

 

$0.02

If that's the power the character needs to have (Cosmic Awareness, yahoo!) then that's what he purchases. Sure beats buying a boatload of Deduction (which is basically the same power--taking inobvious facts and jumping to a correct conclusion) for even cheaper.

20 point, Universal Translator based skills should all have a stop sign after them, IMO. As does any VPP.

The question, how to model a particular type of character. Perhaps the answer is you shouldn't make that type of character. Which is true. The Skillwire based character can overwhelm most of the other characters, so play balance becomes an issue.

Now, setting play balance aside, we need to create a character that can download skills.

I'd use the VPP, with limitations on "only base level skills" and "can't add personal levels to VPP skills". If you buy Electronics through your skillwire set, you get your Int base, and that's it. No +2 points per level. No 5 point with all int skill levels. No overall levels.

You might want to limit the skills to Int 8 (chance 11-) as a play balance issue as well. Depends on how expensive you imagine this thing to be.

___

You could also cheat, and allow Cramming to work with overall levels too. It's probably more expensive than the VPP option.

4 skills Crammed--20 points.

3 Overall levels--30 points. Only usable with crammed skills (-0) (illegal construction, free limitation)

Net--50 points. 11- on any 4 skills, provided you use them one at a time.

This pretty closely mimics the Shadowrun Skillwire system with Task Pools, FWIW.

D

Originally posted by Hermit

Ok, I'm feeling guilt. Here I am picking on Canada (a bit), and I LIKE Canada. Nice guys, good neighbors, beautiful land and I loved some of the Alpha Flight I read in the 80s.

 

So, as pennance, I will reveal this... ah, rather dubious honor that someone has bestowed on my own region...

 

http://www.geocities.com/thesonsofthesouth/

 

Some Team themes should never be touched

Volunteer. [snicker].

White Lightnin. [bwahahahahahahaha]

Thanks Hermit, needed that.

All they need's a "Wildcat" and they're all set.

D

re: Organization vs Characters.

I used to run Pacesetter Chill. Great game, but the main point that I'm going to make here is that allen's right.

Make the organization the focus. In Chill, that was SAVE. The organization gathered the PCs together, and sent them out on monster hunting missions. I was a kind GM, and only had 50% casualties. The GM that introduced the game to me had a 85%.

And, we loved it. My character may well have gotten put into a coma, but I gained the piece of information necessary for Dave's character to kill the beastie by burning the house down. Next time, Keith's character got his head turned around backwards, but I managed to stake the vampire while she was distracted. Teamwork and the overall mission were the focuses of the campaign. Not individual PCs.

However, it requires having Players that aren't Plumbers. Ones that can make throwaway characters, and not devote a 20 page background and 2 days of tweaking numbers to creating the Ultimate Monster Hunter.

Because one lucky shot, the GM picks up every dice he owns, drops them on the table and says, "you take some damage."

And it blows to have spend many days devoting yourself to crafting a piece of artwork and watching it get mangled like a Red Shirt on classic Trek.

D

Originally posted by tiger

Where do you find this UPB? I don't see it on herosphere

UPB is a MSH book. http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=2064 if you want to see a copy.

If you want a .pdf http://www.heroplay.com/features/rules/marvel.php

Near as I know, the .pdf's are posted with permission of the copyright holders, FWIW.

Amazing book. Well worth having just to look at.

D

It's got a nice beat, but I don't think I can dance to it.

D