HalloweenKnight

Well shoot. But even with all the logistics aside... It's still a nice thing to wish for, don'cha think? A Champions Online with actual HERO System numerics behind it? We know it can be done. And we also now know that: 1. It would be easier to change lead into gold using only Q-tips and Windex 2. The makers of Q-tips and Windex would both need to lisence-out the rights to use their products for the project 3. An initial investment of $320,000 is required to buy the lead 4. "Do It Yourself Gold Online" had such an abysmal reception that neither Q-Tips nor Windex would ever possibly be interested in lending their IP to a new project Heh!

Our first expense is the cost of the Kickstarter itself. This goes to various companies such as Amazon, to Kickstarter, as well as the cost of the perks and add-ons. This comes to about 10% of the total. Then there are taxes, which we estimate can run us up to 12% of the total. So, before anything else, we’re out $70,000. Since we are developing the game using the Unreal Engine, and the Kickstarter counts as revenue, we owe Epic Games, the company which makes the Unreal Engine royalties. That comes to about $70,000, as well. We’re rounding up, of course, and estimating based on the best numbers we have available. By rounding up, we buy margin in case an unexpected cost, tax or fee enters the picture. This is a direct quote straight off of the City of Titans Kickstarter page. $140,000 for Kickstarter fees and the Unreal Engine alone. They go on to earmark another $180,000 for more software, servers, lawyers and programmers. Someone was asking for dollar amounts needed to get "HERO System Online" up and running? There you go: $320,000. Not even a million dollars. And as of this post they've exceeded their Kickstarter budget funding and currently have $678,189 to develop City of Titans with. OK, so, you may scoff and say "Well, hey, thats City of Titans...not HERO System Online! They'd be two completely different things!" And you'd be right. But that's where programming the game and tweaking the numbers behind it to make it emulate the HERO System factors in. Also, I posted a "HERO System Online, Anyone?" discussion thread under "Kickstarter Projects"...just to see how much support the idea would actually get. Still too early to tell.

Yes. And I said you may be right.

Oh, so, there aren't dozens of people who read these boards, play the HERO System PnP and love it while at the same time are displeased, disgruntled, and/or disgusted with the final product of Champions Online? Dozens constitutes "a lot" to me. I don't know if one or two dozen people is enough to quantify as being "support" for an MMO game project, though, so, you may be right.

Since City of Titans got their Kickstarter funding so quickly and so easily... Why couldn't someone do the same and instead make a true "HERO System Online"? Are the guys at HeroGames just not interested in such a thing? Because it seems a *lot* of HERO System PnP players certainly are...

Yes I do realize this. The same game engine that was supposed to be Marvel Universe Online, I think. I'm just lamenting the fact that Cryptic's already-made engine still had little to do with the HERO System... ...and I so very much wish that it did.

Herogames, I'm a little disappointed in you. You were given a chance to make the universe you created for Champions become a living, breathing online world with Champions Online... But somewhere, somehow, someone dropped the ball. I'm not here to point fingers and/or say who's to blame, and there'd be nothing to gain here by doing so anyway. But I'd like to explain a little how my wish to play a Champions computer game – one with the HERO System running it – remains unfulfilled by the reality of Champions Online. Primarily, as a player of Champions and the HERO System in tabletop form since 1982 and as a Lifetime Subscriber to Champions Online, I don't feel that Champions Online is what a computer-game version of Champions should be. What should have been an explosion of creative possibilities in character conception, all made possible by Champions having the HERO System as its solid rules, somehow ended up being the limited group of character “archetypes” we see in Champions Online, with nothing resembling the HERO System behind it save for some shared names in character statistics (STR, DEX, CON, etc). What should have been the “design-your-own” powers that Champions players have used the HERO System to create for three decades instead became Champions Online's limited power sets, with strict rules regarding when they're available and an inability to change something so relatively simple as the power's color without paying extra for the privilege of doing so. What should have been the open-ended character ideas made by Champions players and driven by the point-based HERO System instead became Champions Online's level-based character advancement. The whole reason the Champions (HERO) game system was invented 30 years ago was so that the game's characters would never be level-based to begin with. I wanted a computer version of Champions. I wanted to make characters limited only by the rules of the HERO System, some “house rules” for the sake of fairness, and my own imagination...and then pit those characters against published Champions adversaries like Grond, Firewing and Dr. Destroyer. I wanted to share these adventures alongside others via the Internet. But Champions Online? Not what I wanted. I tried to pretend it was, and I tried for six years. I can't pretend anymore. I'm giving up on it and dropping out. Maybe it will become something closer to what I want sometime in the future, but for now my Lifetime Subscription is going inactive. I think what I wanted, and what I wanted Champions Online to be, was just a MUD or MUSH that used the HERO System. I've looked around for something like that, but I don't think anyone runs those any more.

Re: Ankylosaur is up OK, I don't get that.

Re: Ankylosaur is up Yeh, they did OK with this one.

My earlier post on "Champions Online vs. City of Heroes" was a little too...disjointed and unfocused, so I'd like to do something more positive and make a "wish list" of things I'd like to see when the Champions MMO comes out. 1) Just A Single Costume Option - Being that I am an old-school "plumber" player type who comes up with one really good character concept and spends years plumbing that character to its depths through multiple incarnations in games and game systems of all kinds, I just have one request for Cryptic in regards to the costume for the CO version of "The Halloween Knight": I'd like there to be an option for a "pumpkin" or "jack-o-lantern" helmet. A helmet, not a mask. The head needs to be bulbous. Its just a generic thing that no one would have to worry about as far as copyrights are concerned. I hope. The City of Heroes version of HK uses the "chitin helmet", which is OK...but its more "orange Guyver" than pumpkin. 2) No Archetypes - Even though the 5th Ed. Champions book describes some archetypes (bricks, blasters, martial artists, etc.) and City of Heroes uses them already (Tankers, Blasters, Scrappers, etc.), having archetypes (or ATs) in CO would just be silly, redundant and needlessly limiting. You don't box-in and limit things that should be open-ended unless it is absolutely necessary to preserve game balance. I may want my "blaster" to have good defenses and resistances to attacks. I may want my "brick" to have a ranged attack or two. I just want it to remain my choice and not get limited by the character's AT. Even in the Champions sourcebook, ATs were just a guideline...not an actual rule. It should stay that way no matter how far out the window they're throwing the HERO System for CO. 3) Classic Characters "Updated", Not Reworked Entirely To The Point Where They're Unrecognizable - Do I need to explain why? Granted, I'm prepared to accept modernization and "updating" to classic published characters like Armadillo, Ogre, Pulsar, Mechannon and Grond. I accepted it willingly when I thought the FUZION version of Champions was the "new" version. I looked at that artwork and said "Wow, these guys look better than ever now." Woops! FUZION got flushed. OK, so, now there's the 5th Ed. versions from "Conquerors, Killers and Crooks". I looked at that artwork and said "Ah, they look so modernized now." Faithful to their original concepts in books I've had for 20 years or so. And why not, since the same guys from 20 years ago were still doing it! There's accepting "modernization and updating" then there's "who the hell are these characters supposed to be?" and Cryptic's "concept art" for Defender, Ironclad, Menton and Dr. Destroyer is falling more and more into that latter category. I've read what people are saying on these boards, and the majority do not seem pleased with how Cryptic is drawing-up visions of these "classic old standby" characters. Defender and Ironclad with swords? Menton as a scrawny ghetto kid with an enlarged cranium? I'm not complaining about "change". I'm not opposed to "modernization and updating". I'm prepared to accept both, and I have in the past. But when you look at the "new version" of something and your reaction is "WTF?"...something is definitely wrong there. If this signifies Cryptic's collective middle-finger-salute to us "fanboys" of Champions 5th Ed. along with an unspoken vow that "Champions is ours now and we'll do what we please with it to make a buck"...well, they can have it. But I won't be buying it. 4) Just A Few Game Mechanics From The HERO System - OK, so, Cryptic is pitching the rules system that Champions is based on - the HERO System itself - out the window. My question is: How far out the window? Is anything of the HERO System going to be seen in Champions Online? I'd like to see Power Frameworks make it. Elemental Controls and Multipowers seem reasonable, and if Variable Power Pools don't show up I won't cry. I'd like to see Advantages and Limitations on powers in Champions Online. I'd like to see the "classic" HERO System stats like STR, DEX, CON, etc...but I don't know how well some things would translate into an MMO as opposed to others. Further opinions and/or comments are welcome.

Re: Name Something You'd Allow That The GM At The Convention Didn't

Re: Would you allow this I agree. The Multipower method is good - put the Charges limitation on the MP Reserve itself and on the Slots, so that way it becomes "all one pool of Charges" by default. The potential "redundancy" of a Slot having available Charges when the MP Reserve does not is a non-issue, since the reverse (MP Reserve has available Charges and the Slot does not) will never happen. And I think I just hurt myself.

Re: SIZE and MASS, works in progress Just a quick question for you: What would you rate the value of an Advantage on Density Increase to have "No Extra Mass"? ie the character buys Density Increase and gains all of its benefits (extra STR, PD, ED and KB Resistance) with none of the drawbacks (too heavy for elevators, falls through flimsy floors, gets stuck in soft ground that doesn't impede people of "normal" mass, etc.) Normally I'd rate that as a +1/2 Advantage for D.I. but considering that the negative effects of extra mass are the only negative effects of the power, I'd make it +1. Going to +2 like "Affects Physical World" when Desolid seems silly. You seem to have MASS pretty well in mind already so whaddaya think?

Re: Intelligent Swords Hey Q! I sent you this as a message already, but here's an edited version for everyone: Biggest question is: Can the sword attack on its own? If the answer to that is "no", then the whole idea can be resolved as one very nice "Special Effect" about the sword without any extra costs or game technicalities added. The sword's decision on who uses it (or not) could be resolved simply as the "Universal or Personal" aspect of the Focus. If the sword is stolen, but can propel itself back to its "owner" within 24 hours, that falls under "Focus" too (most Foci are recovered within 24 hours by default). Even if the sword "talks" and can "perceive" the world around it, thats still just a Special Effect to me. If the sword can "see" things that its owner can't, buy Enhanced Senses through the sword Focus. The sword need never have to "shut up" when its owner is KOd either. On the other hand, if the sword can fight and attack on its own, you're in a whole different venue now. You'll have to build the sword as a separate character on its own and have its owner pay for it as a Follower or a Duplicate. Expensive and complicated with no precedent that I know of, since I've never read any Fantasy HERO books.

Re: Ironclad is up