Dust Raven
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Posts posted by Dust Raven
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Re: Betterman Energy Balst
holey time-warp batman!I don't think either AVLD or NND is necessary.
Just build an Attack-X (EB or RKA) with the Indirect Advantage (+1/4 or +1/2 ?) and an Only vs. Material-X Limitatation (-1 to -2 ?). Attack-X will bypass any other type of barrier (real wall, FoWall or Entangle) until it hits Material-X which it affects normally. You could also give Material-X a Vulnerability to Attack-X as well.
AVLD or NND is necessary in case material X is wearing armor or has a force field that is not not made of material X. Otherwise you end up with Material X in a suit of full plate armor that might not take damage even thought it would take damage if it was just standing behind the suit of full plate armor.
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Re: Betterman Energy Balst
I do not remember' date=' does Indirect allow you to bypass Armor bought as a Focus? Of course, how would I explain the NND against Armor that is just 'tough skin'?[/quote']No, this Power would require Indirect and AVLD (defenses made of Material X). Add some handwaivium to say it's automatically stopped by any barrier made of Material X even if the character isn't aware the barrier is made of that (but it will then damage the barrier). Add Limitation that it's only versus Material X and you're pretty much done.
If Material X can't really provide any kind of defense, make it NND with the defense being Not Made Of Material X and reduce the Limitation by +1/2.
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Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?
Yes, you are correct.But what I was asking if this was enforced for the Superheroic genre by the GM's that run such games.
- Christopher Mullins
Speaking as a GM that runs such games, I do not. Nor have I played in a superheroic campaign that did. In fact, I've actually played in at least one superheroic campaign that enforced the opposite and denied the use of Real Weapon and discouraged the use of Beam.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
So what if the mechanics of the power they are trying to build isn't covered by *any* of the rules?I very rarely find this to be the case, and when I do it is usually for something that should be completely hand waived such as a plot device rather than use rule or game mechanics.
For example, how would you build a "flash" vs. the "sense" that allows a person to feel their injuries? Or a "darkness" vs. the "sense" that allows a person to tell when they're being mentally attacked?I would determine what the effects of the loss of that sense would be. If those effects matched the effects given for the loss of Senses in the Sense rules, I'd use the Sense rules. If not, I'd use some other rule, perhaps Drain, Suppress or possibly Change Environment, depending on the desired effect.
I don't see this as an excessive amount of hand waving. It sounds to me like you are saying that *any* amount of hand-waving is too much, though I may have misunderstood you.Oh no, hand waiving is a good thing, but it shouldn't be overused, or used as a crutch if the rule you think should work doesn't seem to.
I completely agree with this. And if an existing rule works perfectly with only the tiniest amount of hand-waving, that, to me, confirms that the rule is good.The published books give many suggestions about adding new things to existing mechanics: some games might add Mental Defense as a figured characteristic that all characters have (usually with a base of EGO/5), some games might add a Mana (magic power "END") characteristic, etc. Adding a Sense to the list of standard Senses doesn't strike me as any more of a stretch of the rules, especially when the sense already exists in the real world, or is already mentioned in some form in the rules themselves.
Possibly, but I would definitely say we have a differing opinion of what would make an appropriate Sense.
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Re: Power Dialing: SFX or Mechanic?
I looked up Real Weapon (5ERp480)It is a -1/4 Limitation that does the following:
Weapon must be maintained or it will lose effectiveness (swords become dull losing DC, guns might jam or get OCV penalties as the sights go off, et cetera)
The weapon acts "real" meaning a bullet can't break down a door, it will just put a bullet sized whole in it, and a sword won't chop stones in half.
That's all that one does (attacks can still be scaled, et cetera)
Beam (5ERp113)
Attacks must always be at full power, may not be spread and (similar to Real Weapon) "punch a hole" in the target, instead of created an overall force, like a puncturing type attack.
Beam still allows for bouncing (though the text does say many things that take Beam also take No Knockback and Cannot Be Bounced, but they are not required).
It looks like a Gun could conveivably take both Beam and Real Weapon (for a total -1/2) to fully simulate the idea of a Firearm shooting bullets in Hero.
Since this was bumped, I figured I'd point out ghost-angel here has described how guns are build for heroic campaign settings, per the equipment rules in 5E and 5ER.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
What do you do when you or a player comes up with a concept that isn't specifically covered by the rules' date=' such as ones dealing with non-rulebook senses like these that normal people should have? Do you just say, "Well it's not in the rules, so you can't do it at all," or do you come up with a solution that seems reasonable and consistant with the existing rules and say something like, "Well, that seems like a sense that normal people have, even though it isn't one of the 'classic five,' so let's treat it like a Sense in terms of its game mechanics." If the latter, does your campaign become "odd" as a result?[/quote']Actually, what I've done and will continue to do is state, if applicable, the mechanics of the power they are trying to build isn't covered by the Sense rules, and then inform them which rules, and thus which Powers, to use to build their ability. Which is exactly what I suggest to everyone, in all circumstances where an existing rule doesn't seem to work. It doesn't mean the rule is wrong or broken or incomplete, it usually means the wrong rule is being used.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
I don't, and I'm not. I'm simply allowing for other senses to be Senses in game terms.I completely agree with this statement. That's why I disagreed with your earlier statement that other senses like detection of injury or detection of mental powers being used on you *can't* or *shouldn't* be treated as (capital-S) Senses. It seems to me that you're the one being anal-retentive here. IMO, the HERO System should allow us to build anything we want. It might be fun to play with these other senses in game-mechanical ways: to Flash one's Sense of Touch so they don't feel the pain of injury (as with real-world anesthetics), or to have Darkness against normal people's ability to "feel" mental powers being used on them, or to have a character with Physical Limitation: Face Blind, etc.
If you don't want to allow those concepts into your games, that's fine, but don't put "an anal-retentive strangle hold" on the rest of us who are trying to have fun.
My apologies. It seems I misunderstood your comment.
I will agree that the Senses presented by the rules are what is necessary for standard game play, and if your particular campaign requires additional real-world senses be considered Senses for game play, by all means use them. That's gotta be one odd campaign in my opinion though.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
I have to disagree with you. In the Before Combat chapter (sorry' date=' I only have Fred, someone will have to get a 5er page reference), The Sense Groups section , The Touch Group subsection, the rules addresses damage/pain. A character lacking a sense of touch, while not immune to pain may "think he is perfectly uninjured and healthy, when in fact he's about to collapse due to system shock." That certainly sounds like the ability to "sense" damage is a Sense in the game context of the word. Also given that the lack of a sense of touch applies a penalty to all DEX based skills, including things that may or may not rely directly upon the characters touching another object, to at least consider "balance" as part of the touch group.[/quote']True, but that wouldn't stop you from knowing you were attacked and hit. You'd only be unaware it caused any damage (the attack would be indistinguishable from any attack that simply did no damage), but you'd still be aware an attack occurred.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
Why not? IMO' date=' if it acts like a sense, and it quacks like a sense, then it's a Sense.[/quote']And if you prefer to play Dictionary Hero, go right ahead. To me, having fun is more important than keeping an anal-retentive strangle hold on the definitions of certain words.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
Yes they do. We can all tell when we're injured. That's usually part of the Touch sense.We in reality can, and it's only part of the "touch" sense in that the "touch" sense is actually a hoard of other highly specialized senses, all of which contribute to sensing injury and the type of injury (pressure, damage, pain, heat/cold, etc.)
Characters in the game can sense when they are injured or have been attacked because it's an essential part of the game. It's not a Sense (with a capital S). Same thing with gravity.
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Re: KA Vs Energy Blast
If you have some kind of solid attack (eg fist' date=' sword, knife, bullet) you cannot spread it. Even saying it sounds kind of silly. "I'm going to spread my sword." "You're gonna WHAT?"[/quote']I can believe spreading a sword just as much as I can spreading a laser. It's a pity the rules don't.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
Shh! You'll ruin my evil scheme to destroy all other Champions campaigns by introducing DEX 43 characters. All those other campaigns will collapse from imbalance and then I'll rule the world!
Oh, yeah... right. Sorry.
A-hem. Yeah, DEX bad... it's unbalancing and stuff... buy STR instead. It's... apparently really cheap.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
ok' date=' fine. Show me the math that the dex difference makes a imbalance thats insurmountable--while disregarding the pssibilities of different defense levels, DC levels and so on. Isolating one characteristic and saying 'tada, that creates imbalance' is the UFO theorey of this thread, so to speak.[/quote']Ooh! Pick me! Pick me! I can do it!
Let's give everyone a base of 40 points to spend in basic DEX, Damage and Defense. We get:
DEX +20* = 30
Damage +8 DC = 8d6
DEF +20 = 20 PD/ED
*I'm taking into account the amount DEX that goes to increase SPD
Okay, we have four things, let's make 3 imaginary characters that with the above starting stats and an extra 20 points to spend.
Character one we increase DEX by 10 points.
Character two we increase Damage by +4 DC
Character three we increase DEF by +10
Now, is any of these characters a clearly superior fighter when compared to the others?
DEX vs Damage:
DEX hits Damage with around 90% accuracy.
Damage hits Dex with around 26% accuracy.
Dex causes an average of 8 STUN to Damage on an average hit.
Damage causes an average of 22 STUN to Dex on an average hit.
Since they have equal SPD, we'll give 'em each, 10 shots.
Dex deals an average of 90% of 8x10 (80) = 72
Damage deals an average of 26% of 22x10 (220) = 57
Conclusion: Dex is superior to Damage.
Dex vs DEF
Dex hits Def with 90% accuracy, and causes 0 STUN on an average hit.
Def hits Dex with 26% accuracy, and causes 8 STUN on an average hit.
10 shots each:
Dex deals 90% of 10x0 = 0
Def deals 26% of 10x8 = 20
Conclusion: Def is superior to Dex.
Not to make a long story short, but it turns out Damage is superior to Def (62% of 10x12 vs 62% of 10x8). Guess what folks, it's just like Rock, Paper, Scissors.
There is no trump card here. Sorry to disappoint.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
You describe what happens in your gaming group a lot. I propose that your body of experience is deep but not necessarily very broad.The conclusions you draw from playing a DEX 43 character for 15 years may not necessarily apply to anyone else's campaigns.
$0.02
Treb's drawing the same conclusion I am. I'll back him up completely on this as I've had similar experiences in games I've played and run.
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Re: Learning Via Audio
That's a good idea' date=' Big Jack. You might want to pitch this to Flames, known everywhere else on the net as Jim in Buffalo. He might use for his Hero podcast.Keith "JIm Plugger" Curtis
If only. I've been waiting for an update all year. Literally!
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Re: Ruminations on Skills
Of the appropriate gender and orientation, as well as being single and available, of course.
Gemphyre
And obviously in love with the scientist, though the scientist will be too absorbed in his work to notice.
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Re: KA Vs Energy Blast
Not everyone agrees with your assessment of the situation.I for one vehemently and absolutely disagree with the entire premise.
I don't care what mathematical points you toss at me. Actual Game Play has proved my stance to be correct as far as I'm concerned. I'm already happy so any changes you make automatically make me unhappy - the first part of your post is wrong. You may have a way to make a bunch of people happy.
Agreed.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
Another quick point... on the INT part of the thread. INT basically only portrays quick thinking. So' date=' a character [i']could[/i] be a "super genius" with only a 10 INT... he just is a ponderous thinker?what?
Yes, which is why I think it's perfectly reasonable to give Mechanon a 60 INT. He can still be melodramaticly devious to a literal fault and still have a brain that works so quickly nothing escapes his attention. Just because nothing escapes him doesn't mean he can't still draw a wrong conclusion once in awhile.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
I still can't bring myself to run a 10 Ego hero (or 10 PRE for that matter) unless his name will be Wet-my-pants-man.Absolutely. I don't think I've played a superheroic character with less than a 15 in either since before I learned the rules. Heroic (without the super) usually end up with at least 13s in EGO and PRE, just because heroes should... well... be heroic. You can't really be average and be an action hero, even if you are a high average of 10. At least that's my opinion.
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Re: KA Vs Energy Blast
Hm, and is it legal to "spread" a Ranged Killing Attack under current Rules as Written?Lucius Alexander
Asking a palindromedary
5ER page 380
"Spreading is most commonly used with Energy Blast, but characters may also Spread with other types of Ranged attacks (unless the GM rules otherwise)."
Note: the Dust Raven thinks the phrase "unless the GM rules otherwise" should only be included in any given rulebook ONCE, at the begining, in a sentence that reads "All rules presented in this book should be assumed to be followed by the statement: Unless the GM rules otherwise." It would really save a lot of space for Hero System publications.
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Re: KA Vs Energy Blast
Don't Energy Blasts also have the inherent advantage of being able to spread? Or did I miss that getting phased out?Yes, EB can do that and HA cannot. However, HKA can also spread.
I still think normal vs killing isn't an issue. I have no personal experience that would lead me to believe killing attacks, in practice, are superior to normal attacks to the point of needing to cost more, nor have I heard of anyone else's personal experiences leading them to the same conclusion. It's all in the math, and math, like any form of logic, is a really good tool for reaching a wrong answer with absolute certainty.
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Re: Implicit Mental Senses
Up and Down are not part of the character.If one wanted to build such a sense it would possibly be "Detect Gravity" or at least "Detect Local Gravity Orientation."
As for a good reason NOT to make it a standard sense in game terms, though - who wants to let a player buy the ability to Flash it??
I disagree, basically because I see this as more of detecting what end of my body my head is on. As far as the gravity thing, people don't sense or detect gravity, they experience it. Gravity is something that affects the character, not some piece of scenery. It falls right in with getting attacked or injured. No one has Detect "I Take BODY Damage" and no one has Detect "Gravity Sucks".
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
This is a bit sweeping in my opinion. To run a good game where the GM doesn't have parameters in place also requires mature players with a good sense of the genre and setting being played. with.As a GM, I've dealt with such nitwit players before, but I didn't set limits. I kept to my guidelines and told my players when they build an unreasonable character that they've done so and made some suggestions on how to fix it. Some whined, but in the end they got the character they wanted, and I got a player playing a balanced character for my campaign.
Well, there was that one time when even after all that I had to ask one particular nitwit to leave... but that's a different story.
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Re: What does HERO Games have against >30 DEX, INT and EGO?
That goes towards play balance. If a player character has a very high DCV' date=' then lower defenses and/or attacks will help balance the equation. I don't object to balance, I just don't think it's best done by formulas and formal caps. I think it's best handled with cooperation between the various players and GM(s).[/quote']Agreed 100%! For a long time now I've tossed out my "limits" and replaced them with "guidelines". I expect everybody to keep their stats and powers within a certain range, but I'm willing to allow some, or even all, to step outside that if it fits their concept and it doesn't unbalance the game. And of course, just because something falls well within the guidelines doesn't mean I'll automatically allow it either.
Betterman Energy Balst
in HERO System Discussion
Posted
Re: Betterman Energy Balst
Um... how? You can't ignore a target's defenses unless the attack as AVLD or NND. The only other option is to force every defense other that ones made of Material X to take a Limitation "Not Versus Betterman EB".