Haerandir

Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists

Actually, I wasn't familiar with Mantis, so I Googled her. One thing that I learned is that the adjective 'skank', while harsh, does seem to sum up certain elements of her background pretty well.

Re: The cranky thread

I don't know why I bother putting people on my Ignore List. Everyone quotes all the annoying posts 3 or 4 times anyhow, and I only miss out on the posts that are relatively unobjectionable.

Feh.

Re: Don't Buy Everything In a Good Story (Topic: Supers and the Law)

Evil Master Plan' date=' Step Seventy Three: Kill all the lawyers.[/quote']

 

Step 73? Everybody knows that the first thing you do is kill all the lawyers. That's step one.

Re: DC Universe Overview

Paypal me a dollar and I'll edit my post to remove that

How about if I just reach through the Internet with the power of my mind and strangle you? Will that do?

Re: Marvel's Best Martial Artists

1. Woverine (Cause he's the best at what he does)*, Joss Whedon Chix

2. Storm*, Shadowcat*, Hot Chix that are almost naked.

3. Elektra*, Hot Chix with Eye Patches or lots of weapons or spiky bits

4. Shang Chi (loses points for not being as cool), almost any Chinese character

5. Captain America

6. Daredevil*, Iron Fist*, Task Master

7. Black Widow*, Moon Night

8. Puck*, tough snarley guys in spandex

9. The Punisher, Kingpin*, Nick Fury, tough snarley guys with guns

10. Goons

 

*May be randomly dead, or just got back from being dead, or maybe they have powers this week unless they've lost them. These days, who knows?

This list is beyond awesome. I wish I could rep you again.

Re: DC Universe Overview

So basically what people are saying is that:

a) What happened in the past doesn't matter because it will get retconned anyway.

All DC characters are the same person just wearing a different disguise.

That sounds about right. Frankly, I don't read much DC stuff, either, so I find it's best to simply treat each story arc as a more-or-less stand-alone title. Since I don't read enough to pick up on stuff that's part of a big crossover event or minute variances in continuity, I don't really miss the context much.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

My family watched the the Smothers Brothers in the '80's, too. It wasn't bad.

But, frankly, I'd heard the "Mom always liked you best!" line dozens of times in other contexts, long before I'd ever heard of the Smothers Brothers, so I agree that it's weird to encounter someone who wasn't at least familiar with the phrase. I'm pretty sure it's come up in at least two Far Side cartoons, for instance.

Re: The Punisher vs Bugs Bunny

Bugs doesn't just win' date=' by the end he has Frank in Bellevue saying, "My name is Frank Castle, The Punisher. I own a mansion and a yacht". [/quote']

 

"I SAID!!! Put it in the Happy Box!"

 

Oh, wait, that was the Tick. Similar results, though.

Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions?

I'd have to go with: more than 'none' and less than a 'lot'.

I.e: I just ballpark it.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

I have long felt that proper trouser selection was a vital step in any scheme for world domination.

It's nice to know I'm not alone in this.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

The answer is: It depends on how Gravitar's levels are assigned on any given phase. She has a base 8 CV, +2 DCV and +6 with her gravitic powers. This is why she can assign her levels all to defense and force a stalemate (assuming average to-hit rolls).

However, if Dark Seraph puts his levels into OCV and just keeps swinging, he'll hit her eventually, and she folds up faster than he does in that race.

BTW: The level-assignment thing is one reason why I haven't bothered to game it out phase-by-phase. There's just too many guessing-games involved. Essentially, if both sides assign all their levels to offense, everyone hits with ever attack (on average). If both sides assign all their levels to defense, then no one ever hits (on average, again). If they change their CSL assignments phase-by-phase to react to changing conditions, then it just becomes a game of 6-card monte. Eventually, Gravitar will guess wrong too many times and either take the second Soul Ravaging hit, or get hit by Phoenix's Flash, or Eclipse's Darkness UAA, and the question of how she assigns her levels become much less of an issue, as her CVs are halved.

In any case, the answer remains, "The best Gravitar can hope for is a stalemate, and she'll only get that if you guarantee average rolls to hit."

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

IMHO' date=' if it came down to Gravitar or Menton, Menton would spank that @$$ hands down. I don't have my copy of CKC in front of me at the moment, but I do beleive Gravitar is sorely lacking in mental defenses. Menton would just french fry her brain.[/quote']

 

Gravitar's only defense against mental attacks is her 23 EGO. This is actually a meaningful defense against mentalists whose own EGO is in the same range, and who have effect dice in the 10-14 range. Basically because her ECV is high enough that the can't neccessarily auto-hit and they need good to very good rolls to rock her world with the high-effect MC and MI effects. Doesn't help her nearly as much against Ego Attack or BoECV Entangles, though. And Menton has dice to burn. Plus the higher initiative and SPD, of course. And TK powers roughly equivalent to hers.

 

Edit: All of which means I concur: Menton owns Gravitar.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

Sure, we'll tack 'em on to the list. At this rate, we'll have run out of matchups by New Years, though.

Re: My favorite player ain't coming back

I recommend something involving clone duplicates. Or, given the Unseelie connection, a Faerie doppelganger.

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

Eurostar takes themselves too seriously. They need a goofy theme villain.

 

Maybe a boomerang fish thrower, or a girl with a magic bra.

Please, being a member of Eurostar, she'd be French, and insist on being referred to as the "Mademoiselle with the Magic Brasierre".

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

But seriously' date=' folks, am I the only one seeing pushed attacks for an opening just a bit wrong, especially for an overconfident character? Perhaps my vision of pushing is too limited.[/quote']

 

Well, I agree, but I was starting from the premise of "find a way that Gravitar COULD win, to see if it's worth playing out". But, as Bloodstone points out, she really can't even take Dark Seraph. I've been toying with writing a little fiction piece in which DS challenges her to single combat and spends a turn Desolid, laughing and taunting her, before he goes solid and starts trading 10 BOD damage to her for 16 STUN damage to him and seeing how long she lasts.

 

(Edit: Indeed, since I was forgetting Force's 25% Damage Reduction, she can't even one-shot him with a Pushed Multiple Power Attack. It really is that desperate for her, even though she probably won't realize it.)

 

If people want to see if Gravitar can take out other published teams, I'd nominate the Ultimates next.

 

As for the Crown matchup, "Nothing to see here, move along."

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

Agreed - although I'll give Steve more credit for knowing what he's implementing than most legislatures enacting tax legislation (which is where my "intention of... legal argument arises from).

Well, you'll definitely get no argument from me there. Please be assured, my prior post wasn't meant as an attack on you, I realize you were just goofing around with a silly quasi-legal argument. I just happen to think the starting premise of that line of argument is invalid. Fruit of the poison tree, etc.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

PS: Did you mean "*inspired my other threads*" or "inspired by other threads*"?

I've been assuming he meant 'by'.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

Ugh... I promised myself I wouldn't do it, but I've spent the past hour playing out different Gravitar/Krim scenarios, and they all end in defeat for Gravitar. She just doesn't have a plan for the combo of Dark Seraph and Eclipse, who can go both go desolid to avoid all her attacks, match her move for move, and either blind her (Eclipse) or kill her in two shots (Dark Seraph). The presence of Bloodstone and Phoenix as fall-back plans and Force as a spoiler just make it more certain.

If you assume 11s for every to-hit roll, she can go all defensive and force a stalemate.

Alternatively, she can run the second she sees them. They can't stop her.

Or she can stay and die.

The Crowns of Krim have every advantage that Eurostar lacks. They have multiple characters who can do damage that bypasses her defenses (Bloodstone and Dark Seraph). Eurostar also has two (Mentalla and Fiacho), but the Crowns' are better in almost every way. The members of the Crowns of Krim who can't hurt her physically still have powers that can hamper her tactically. Apart from Temblor (ignore Temblor, he doesn't exist), every member of the Crowns flies and has ranged attacks that Gravitar has to worry about.

Dark Seraph solo is an extremely tough fight for Gravitar, but she could pull it off with some lucky rolls. Add Eclipse and she's almost certain to die. Anyone else (except Temblor) basically just stacks the odds further and further against her.

The real killer is Desolidification. She has no plan to get around Desolid. Any time that she spends attacking the non-desolid members of the group is time Dark Seraph can spend killing her. Any time she spends duelling with Dark Seraph is time Phoenix and Eclipse can spend blinding her. Once she's blind, her advantage in combat value is nullified, and she's helpless. Even if she somehow comes up with a plan to deal with all the actual threats on the team, Bloodstone will eventually wear her down with his gimpy (yet broken) 1d6 RKA NND Does Body 0 END Continuous attack.

Run, Gravi, run!

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

Now, now, Enforcer. There's no reason this one has to go south, unless people actively decide to take a position and defend it regardless of the facts or to whether or not people are listening to them. Let's wait for the pain to begin before we start running and screaming, shall we?

Another reason Gravitar has to take out Force first: He has Missile Deflection, at Range, vs. all ranged attacks. Meaning that AFTER he's set up his force wall around Dark Seraph and himself, he can sit back and deflect all of her attacks against anyone until he gets bored or blows a roll. Good thing she's got a meaningful CV advantage over him, but even with that, it looks bad for our favorite Mistress of Gravity.

Edit: Frankly, I don't there's really any point in trying to game this fight out. The only reason it made any sense to do it in Gravitar vs. Eurostar was because there's a legitimate pass/fail option for each side. Against the Crowns of Krim, there are at least 4 team members she simply HAS to take out, and all of them can stand at least one hit from her best attack without dropping, especially if you mandate average rolls. With average rolls, Dark Seraph takes her down in 2 shots with his ranged BOD Drain, unless she goes all defense with her CSL's, then nobody hits anybody.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

Gravitar's Phase 12 action?

My first instinct is to have her put her CSLs in OCV, half move up to keep herself out of Temblor's Flash range, push her 18d6 EB, and try to nail Force. He's one of the softest targets on the field, and his presence keeps her from using her 9d6 NND lullaby on the others.

This gives her OCV 14 against (assuming he has his levels in DCV) DCV 9, for a 16- chance to hit with 20d6 damage against PD 23, 50 STUN and CON 25. Average roll of 70 on 20d6 nets 47 STUN, and Force stunned for the phase with 3 STUN left. If she gets lucky, she can take him out with this one shot.

Anyone see a better plan?

(Edit: Forgot range mods. If, instead of moving up, Gravitar half-moves to close with Force, she can get within 5 hexes of him and only take a -2 RMod, reducing her to-hit to 14-)

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

At the risk of contributing to the delinquency of a thread, I've taken a few moments to glance at the character writeups. On the surface, this looks like a much tougher fight for Gravitar than the Eurostar scenario. Dark Seraph alone is scary to her, with his 6d6 BOD Drain and his 9d6 Ego Attack. Plus he's a lot tougher than Mentalla, so there's less chance that she can drop him in one or two shots (15 BOD, 70 STUN, 35 PD > 11 BOD, 30 STUN 24 PD). His big weakness is that he has no PD Force Field or Force Wall to interrupt her 9d6 NND.

The rest of the Crowns have the same problem Eurostar has of having relatively little in the way of attacks that can hurt her, but they're much harder for her to manipulate (her Flight UAA powers are ineffective against all the Crowns who have Desolid, for instance). Also, Force DOES have a Force Wall, which can be used to protect Dark Seraph from The Big Squeeze. The Crowns are also replete with interference powers, like Darkness, and have good mobility compared to Eurostar (Temblor is the only Crown who doesn't fly, but he does have two different ways of melding with the Earth). Of course, as long as Gravitar can stay at least 8" off the ground, Temblor might as well not even be there.

I don't have the level of anal retentiveness to actually map out the fight and try to determine the interactions between the various powers, attacks and defenses in this match, but on a cursory glance, my nod goes to Dark Seraph and his Ooky Friends. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise if someone actually does play it out and discovers something I've missed.

Re: *inspired my other threads* Gravitar vs Crowns of Krim

Well, I guess it just goes to show that you can find inspiration in the oddest places...

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

OK, since we're taking the Lawyering approach to its finest...

 

The fact that Scorpia's darts are written up in a maner which deviates from the normal manner of writing up such constructs can be taken to indicate that they differ in some fashion from the normal construct. This could readily be taken to mean that they can penetrate some forms of resistant defenses (other than those which are "armor").

 

Given that Steve Long reviews each and every book, there must be a reason that Scorpia's power writeup deviates from the norm (this is similar to the "intention of the legislature" issue commonly argued before the Courts). The length of time CKC has been out, with this item not errata'd (many others are) further supports the assertion that her power deviates from the standard for such constructs intentionally, and is thus intended to function differently.

 

(snip: stuff that I actually agree with, which should have been able to go without saying)

Alternatively we could assume that, since "unarmored" is not defined as a rules term with special significance within the Hero System, and further more is included in the context of a shorthand description of a Conditional Power Limitation, that Long expected (and continues to expect) that it should be understood as denoting nothing more than its ordinary English meaning, i.e. "uncovered/unprotected/defenseless". At that point, it's up to the GM of a given game to adjudicate exactly what constitutes covering, protection and defense.

A 30 rPD Force Field sounds like exactly the sort of thing that would keep you safe from a poison dart, to me, and I submit that any reasonable person who is familiar with the Hero System rules and the English language would agree. No doubt Steve Long hasn't weighed in to 'clarify' this issue because he is not aware, or simply is unable to believe, that there are people out there who would seriously argue that a Force Field that protects you from bullets, knives and falling rocks won't protect you from a poison dart, simply because they can't tell the difference between a 'defined game mechanic' and a 'description of a special effect'.

This is both the 'rules-lawyering' interpretation and the 'common sense' interpretation. The rules specifically state that the right thing to do in this case is to use your judgement (i.e. 'Reasoning from Effect'), and I don't think anyone disagrees that ruling the Force Field capable of stopping a poison dart is the 'logical' thing to do. I suppose that, if someone really is confused on this point, they could submit a rules question on the Hero System Discussion forum. Steve might even answer it. Personally, I don't plan to waste his time with something this asinine.

You know what the funny thing about this is? If the word 'unarmored' appeared in the text as 'un-Armored', I would agree that the intent was that only the Armor power would suffice. This is the level to which this argument has descended. We're trying to read the mind of a man to whom we have easy access by parsing capitalization and hyphenation within a single word.

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

I admit, I mostly made that post as an excuse to use the phrase "Martin Blank with deer rifle".

Man, that was a good movie.

Edit: I agree that it's vanishingly unlikely, but anything's possible. As a thought exercise, I spent some time last night working out a scenario under which Eurostar could track down Gravitar. As you've pointed out before, UNTIL hasn't managed it, neither has Interpol, and they've got far more (and more directly useful) resources to commit to the job than Eurostar does. So the first thing Eurostar needs to do is raid UNTIL and Interpol headquarters and steal all the data those organizations have on Gravitar. Then, they need to hire a bunch of professional intelligence analysts to go through that mass of data, along with all publicly available Gravitar sightings that occur after the raids, plus whatever they can collect from their underworld contacts (which is probably not much, as Gravitar has no underworld connections in any case, and even if you rule that she hangs with Viperia and Holocaust, neither of them is likely to give Eurostar the time of day, much less stab their only real friend in the back)... Then they need to hire a bunch of field operatives and flood those countries most likely to be Gravitar's home nation with observers. Once they've amassed enough data, they can probably narrow it down to one country, then one region, then once city, then one neighborhood, then one house. Shouldn't take more than a couple of years and a few hundred million Euros. At that point, a normal hit man with a sniper rifle doesn't add much to the bill.

Piece o' cake!

And, in another no doubt vain attempt to return this thread to it's original purpose, this just underlines the need for Fiacho to turn Eurostar into an effective intelligence network if he's really serious about conquering Europe, or anything else, for that matter.