phookz

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

I was aware of it. PITA. Additions that were made due to changes that caused more problems than they "solved." I thought that was for other game systems.

I may be misunderstanding your position, but it sounds like you would prefer it if the GM didn't have to adjudicate power builds. I don't think that's possible in a universal system with an open framework. That's the price you pay for the flexibility HERO gives you. As has been pointed out multiple times, there are plenty of ways to munchkin the system, the least of which is getting a point break for putting a power in a Framework.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

Roy Sullivan has survived being struck by lightning seven times!

He probably had it coming

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

The problem doesn't lie with Aid' date=' or any adjustment power. The problem is with Multipower/VPP and powers persisting even when the pool is shifted away from that power.[/quote']

 

The problem lies with trying to abuse the rules. This particular example is mitigated extremely by the fact that Aids don't stack, but abusing the rules isn't limited to Aid or Multipower - there are many ways to abuse the rules. You can get just as much cheese without the Multipower, it just costs a little more.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

It's worse than that. That's potentially 30d6 Aid to STR' date=' or 180. 180! For every member of the team for 96 points. Probably should buy an Endurance Reserve for the END Cost though. [/quote']

 

Nobody is ever going to roll 180 on 30d6. Theoretically it's possible, in practice you'll never see it, ever. You'll have a better chance of hitting the lottery three times, or getting struck by lightning six times.

 

In any event, the MP I posted was merely there to point out what various Aid builds would actually provide under 6E rules.

 

As The Main Man already pointed out the Maximum Effect rules that make this argument moot. You can't stack adjustment powers.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

I'd be interested in seeing the proposed MP' date=' at a 60 AP level, say, statted and costed out. How long is the fade rate? Anything less that hours probably doesn't cut it, a pretty big advantage. I suspect, statted out in 6e, this is nowhere near as powerful as you suggest. And, at the end of the day, abusive powers should be rejected. The cost of flexibility is the potential for abusive abilities, which the GM must then reject. Or give the same power to a villain, without the "self only" Maybe it's "others only" and the heroes keep running into villains charged up by the mysterious SuperCharger. It's amazing how quickly players cry out for abusive abilities to be vetoed away once they start being on the receiving end.[/quote']

 

Cost POWERS

60 Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=

6f 1) Strength Boost I: Aid 3d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Day; +2 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 2) Strength Boost II: Aid 3 1/2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Hour; +1 3/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 3) Strength Boost III: Aid 4d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes; +1 1/2) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 4) Strength Boost IV: Aid 4d6+1, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 5 Minutes; +1 1/4) (58 Active Points) - END=6

6f 5) Strength Boost V: Aid 5d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1) (60 Active Points) - END=6

6f 6) Strength Boost VI: Strength Boost VI: Aid 10d6 (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

Here's a 60 AP MP with various Aids to Strength, 6E build. They start with 5 pts per day and drop down to the standard 5 per turn. At the all day rate, your going to average 10.5 points to STR for a real cost of 6 points. It's not like the character is saving a lot on this. Dropping down to the 5 per minute rate your only going to net an average of 17.5 points of STR - this is a much better deal than the all day rate, but the character is going to have to be reactivating that power very frequently.

Re: A DC Animated-style HeroMachine

Hmm, sisters or a variant of duplication? Or maybe some weird cloning accident gone awry? Inquiring minds want to know.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

A fade rate that outlasts the scene is essentially perpetual' date=' and stopsigns and exclamation points in the rule book are more help to shopping munchkins than overworked GMs. Designers should really go back to the drawing board if they feel a power or ability justifies either blemish.[/quote']

 

While I agree with you about the notion of "essentially perpetual", it really needs to be put into context. Are you saying there should be no way to build an Aid that has an extended fade rate? What's wrong with letting a power last all day? It really depends on the power, IMO. There are plenty of examples for this in other games and fiction, so why not allow it to work in HERO?

 

One thing I've always loved about HERO was the fact that some things needed a GM's call, and it's right there in the rules. Empowering, and requiring, GMs to make decisions will lead to better GM's. You can't come up with a rule for every possible permutation, so you're going to need this anyway. The stop signs and excalamation points allow for rules to be defined that aren't worth the effort to trying to work out every permutation.

Re: What do you think of Endurance Reserve in 6E?

Buy the spell outside of a MP/VPP' date=' because it is too abusable to allow it inside and to persist after the reserve is reallocated. Why can't I keep my Force Field up at full even when I shift my MP to Energy Blast? Because that's how a Multipower [i']works[/i].

Not anymore. Aid has a fade rate - it makes more logical sense to apply the fade rate. It's possible to abuse it, but there are plenty of things that are possible to abuse, that's what the exclamation point icon is for.

Re: Leaping

I'm away from my books this week, but there are rules for this under Leaping in the APG - Acrobatics roll at +1 for first 'bounce' (I think), -1 for each successive, total distance may not exceed m in Leaping... that sort of thing.

 

I love the APG.

 

Ned

As ned-kogar already stated, bouncing through leaps are covered in APG p104. It handles single and multiple bounces, and what to do if you can't perceive the target when you start.

Rep for ned.

Re: Real Costs for spells and how you handle them?

In all reality, everything characters do in a typical RPG defy reality. A Swordsman taking on 20 guys in a row and winning is pretty unrealistic.

 

Without any tinkering on our part, the system favors "the wizard" who can do anything over "the fighter" who just has some combat skills. Hence why you have to reign in such things in settings where you want a "fighter" archetype to work.

 

The same thing would happen in any genre if you don't customize your powers to fit and be balance. If one guy has a gun and sharpshooter skills, and the other guy can bend reality at will, obviously the latter is going to "win" or be "more powerful." If one guy is just really strong and tough, and the other guy is Silver Surfer, well, do the math.

 

This is not unique to FH. Nor is it a "problem" with the HERO system, or at least not one unique to it - see all the hubbub regarding Casters vs. Melee in D20, or Jedi vs. Everything Else in Star Wars games (both the D20 and WEG versions, not to mention the SW Galaxies MMO.)

 

And, again, by enforcing my genre conventions in my FH games, I've never had those players playing non-casters feel like they are "supporting characters" to the all-powerful Caster.

Exactly. The larger issue isn't the point cost, it's what's available to the different character archetypes. And that's not an issue with the system as much as it is an issue with the concept for the game. Some people want their wizards to be fireball-slinging weapons of mass destruction and utility. If that's the case, they're going to find it difficult to balance the non-casters with the casters, and it doesn't matter what system you put them in - it's not a game design problem as much as it is a setting design problem.

The thing is - most other games couple game design with setting design. D&D makes certain assumptions that all characters will have a certain amount and level of magic item at higher levels. It's built into the system itself when you look at the powers, abilities and monsters that are available to the higher level characters. What I love about HERO is that it makes none of these assumptions. The downside is, it's up to the GM to do the work for it.

I liked some of the balance created by different schools of magic, but in FH 4e they tended to blur into each other. I don't really like the divide by 3 mechanic that TA brings - I think you should pay for what you get, not just cut the price because you're using magic.

Re: My son's first character

"Great. What is his story?

"He's from another planet. He works with computers and came across a secret that the other aliens didn't want him to see. He flew away on a space ship and crashed on our planet. His space ship got damaged and he lost his computer chip that the secret was on. He's now on our planet looking for that chip. The other aliens are trying to also get that chip back.

That's cool - love the intrigue. How old is this kid? It's easy to forget just how creative children can be.

Very cool stuff.

Re: Real Costs for spells and how you handle them?

For one thing' date=' PCs [i']are[/i] "a small minority of people". More importantly, there's more to fantastic abilities than being a mage. If you look at myths and fairy tales, a lot of people who are by no means "wizards" still have atypical abilities - pacts, blessings, uncanny skills that border on impossible, charms, relics, divine ancestors - it's not just about "mundane or mage". And I do think that characters should be playing in the same arena. If one character is limited to "things that are realistically possible for an average person" and another character can do "anything that has happened in fantasy", then you have a disconnect. And even if you happen to adjust other factors such that things balance out at a particular point in their development, you won't have any ability for further progression.

I think you've really nailed it here. The larger problem, IMO, is that many people design a campaign world that has a disconnect. As I've said before, a lot of popular fiction is difficult if not impossible to model in a game and have game balance, unless you restrict the character archetypes. Gandalf was a plot device. Middle-earth is a rich, interesting world, but if you let a player be a wizard everyone else will be left in the cold. That didn't always happen in the book because he was a plot device, but hell - if the guy can go toe to toe with a Balrog and come out on top what chance does the average troll have against him?

Re: My son's first character

I'd like to see it as well - sounds cool.

Not sure if this has been posted before or not. I know at least one member on these boards played with google Sketchup (http://sketchup.google.com/) to create a starship model before, but there's a lot of stuff out there on google's site that is ripe for the picking for your games.

Check out the gallery and search for 'starship':

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=starship&styp=m&btnG=Search

Some very cool stuff there. This tool could be useful in other ways to help visualize your games.

Re: Kill the Dude with the Thing

Don't forget the diabetes commercials - nobody says 'diabeetus' like Brimley.

Re: FANTASY HERO Sneak Peek #1: The Cover!

I agree.

Re: Superhero Images

I agree - post more, it looks great.

Re: A DC Animated-style HeroMachine

Not sure if I like this drawing too well. I was attempting for something patriotic, but I dunno...

 

 

Buffalo Soldier

Cool but he needs dreadlocks.

Re: Critical and Altered Maths

Yeah, with hit locations giving x2 - x5 STUN and x2 BODY it seems like that takes care of critical hits right there. Even without called shots the randomness of the location rolls covers critical hits nicely. If you really want to add critical hits based on the attack roll, then I would go with the Fearghus' suggestion.

Re: SF art website

Yeah, that is awesome! Repped.

Re: What do speedsters do in 6E?

The Flash obviously uses a Martial Throw vs. Superman but how would he add his own velocity to the distance in HERO?

Is it legal to use combine a Half Move run in a tight circle (which could be done at his top combat Running velocity) with the Martial Throw?

If so, that's a near fight ender vs. a brick the speedster can lift*.

 

from 6e2 page 92,

Maybe he's not adding his velocity. Maybe he bought extra STR with the limitation only for Martial Throws, only when there's room to move, etc.

Oh, and that clip reminds me that I need to set my DVR up to record some of these animated shows

Re: TK Throw Things

I agree about you made the right call. Grab and throw is fine - if the player wants a consistent, fast and easy attack they need to pay for it.

And how hard can he throw? Remember he can't count the TK STR needed to throw the items that distance in his calculation of how much damage they do.

I don't recall this rule. It would seem to me that the STR required to throw the object should still be included in the calculation for damage.

Re: Real Costs for spells and how you handle them?

Comparing fiction to rpg is probably not what we want to do. In a long running campaign, most players won't be ok if you choose one of them to be "the one" and everyone else is ancillary.

 

Balance is not everything, I agree... but every player needs to feel awesome during combat. A fighter type that is limited to non-power combat maneuvers (maneuvers that the wizard has access to should they desire...) is going to feel less awesome (I know I would) than the wizard (martial arts, as written in the BBB, doesn't quite catch the fighter up to a wizard, IMO.). Balance, too, is not just about balancing a one-on-one fight, it's about balancing the "awesome-sauce." Allowing some special martial "powers", like entangle, or something similar to a D&D 4E fighter's ability to mark enemies (marking an enemy in 4E is a way for a character to make it more difficult for the enemy to attack anyone else except him... the ultimate way of keeping the enemy off the squishy wizard) goes a LONG way towards spreading the awesome-sauce around.

 

Therefore, though we are spending a lot of time discussing balance with a magic system, I think equal thought should be spent on coming up with ways to make a fighter type cooler. Markdoc started the ball rolling with some example fighter powers. Just as there could be different schools of magic, there could be schools of fighting styles... an archer could deflect attacks with a well placed arrow, a fighter could have an aura of defence (getting into the enemies face) that maintains the enemies attention on them (mind control? with the special effect being "attack me and not those behind me"), or a mind control to taunt the enemy into a mistake or lose their cool,...

I agree - that was my point but it may not have come across that way. There is an inherent difficulty with modeling most fiction due to the fact that the fiction has no need to balance the archetypes. That doesn't necessarily make for a good gaming experience, especially if you're playing the character with the weak sauce.

Re: Real Costs for spells and how you handle them?

That's actually a fair point: there is precisely one situation where magic users can be underpowered and that's where spells are bought outside a framework (ie: at full cost) and mages attempt to duplicate free gear with spells (in other words, the mage attempts to buy spells that give him an RKA and armour, instead of using the free stuff and buying spells to do what mundane equipment can't). We have actually had a few posts from players who have attempted to do that, but to be fair, they were totally new to the system.

 

cheers, Mark

I agree with this and the earlier point about hobbling. It's not a requirement for all campaigns, but if you want character archetypes to be balanced your going to have to place restrictions on how magic can be purchased, how it works, etc.

It's true that balance is situational. There are going to be fights that are difficult for the wizard character, especially if there are limitations on how they cast (as in Kraven Kor's example). There will be other fights where the wizard will clearly outshine the fighter types. A lot of this has to do with the sheer versatility that the wizard brings to the table.

This is nothing new to RPGs, and isn't unique to HERO. It's just that the nature of the universal system that HERO exposes the nature of game system design that is usually taken care of in the base rules by other systems. That's not to say that other systems are well balanced. A high level Wizard in D&D will wipe the floor with a Warrior in most fights, at least in pre 4th edition. I have very little experience with 4e, but it appears to be better balanced between classes.

I'd like to point out that most fantasy fiction is not balanced at all. Gandalf was a plot device, as are many wizards. Plenty of fantasy fiction has the wizard character as the chosen one - the other characters can't really touch them in terms of balance. Han Solo doesn't really stand a chance against a Jedi. This isn't a new problem at all - but in typical fantasy fiction it's a story there is no need to balance the archetypes.

Re: Old West Setting?

Here's an old thread with resources you could use:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/55990-Western-Hero-Resources

And here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/64201-Western-Hero/page

where I found this cool link to the code of the west

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-codewest.html

The thought of playing a western has never appealed to me before but now I'm thinking it has a lot of potential to be ridiculously fun.