Metamorph, Multiform, Heroic Form, and Growth: A Concept Question

[Sveta8]

Good Evening! I will try and likely fail to be short on this.

I have been kicking around and trying to slowly build a metamorph of a horrific nature, because I thought that would be fun to do while I have little else for it. After finishing the 300pt draft, I ran into some frustrating issues. One, that I haven't the foggiest how to properly balance them. If they have enough PD/ED, should there be more Resistant or not, how much damage is enough damage, what are the other skills I am missing, how many combat levels is too many, should I even take combat levels... Ect.

But, the core issue I am to ask here is about the core. Because I realized, I built a pretty average person with some nifty skills and lots of miscellaneous and not particularly helpful powers, and then the Brick character that they were intended for in the vast majority of the time as a Multiform. I didn't know if Multiform was what I was going for.

In most cases, the Human half of the equation hardly was bothered. In combat, they would shift, and that would be that. Outside of combat, they wouldn't be shifted, but that was more due to size constraints than anything else. The mind I had envisioned as being somewhat fracturous, but that would be true in both forms to the same degree. So the same skills would be transfered over, and while I was struggling to do so with my math of it and was working to fix that, the concept is that they should. So it is the same mind, messed up as it may be, where shifting would be treated as a combat... ability. That, more or less... is Growth.

Growth too led me to a weird end. While it is true that they were changing size (Normal to Enormous) there was a fair bit of cosmetic shifting. From an average Joe to a somewhat horrific beast of a thing. That could be easily done with just some Special Effects and a few linked powers, but still it fails to address the problem of Persistance. Namely, that the character is intended to be able to be one shape or the other indefinitely. Growth as an activated ability, I could work to try and make Inherent with some work, but that still leaves a lot of powers with either a Linked Nature, or a Unified Power mess.

I also have the option of simply writing them up as the bestial form, and either have Multiform with limited points to go to a more basic human, or perhaps give it Shrinking with a cosmetic twist back to Human. However, both of those are an expenditure of points on something that should exist thematically but wouldn't likely be coming up, but shouldn't be too likely or involved.

Heck, part of me after looking at all this frustrating mess with trying to match mechanics to thematic wants to simply drop the fact that they can shift back to human. Enjoy figuring out how to be a truely monsterous being everytime they close their eyes.


In short, I built a human that really didn't need to be 300pts so that I could have a monsterous Brick who probably needs more than 300pts. Is this Multiform, Growth, Heroic Identity, or other? Or are there better ways to do it?

[Sveta8]

For those that are curious, or more likely, wind up waking up and seeing this, I found out I was thinking of one Advantage wrong.

Specifically, Inherit. I was confusing Inherit for both Inherit and Always On. While without Always on, the cost is significant, it is still less than buying the options individually.

Thus, I will likely be treating the Bestial nature as an Inherit Growth power, with Linked Powers going to it. Given that it doesn't cost much, I will not be placing a negative value to the powers for it. If you can change size at any time, while by in large (ha) you may not always be able to use all your powers at your disposal, it is not often that that exists as a true negative. Should others think otherwise, feel free to inform me as such.

[Ninja-Bear]

1 hour ago, Sveta8 said:

Good Evening! I will try and likely fail to be short on this.

I have been kicking around and trying to slowly build a metamorph of a horrific nature, because I thought that would be fun to do while I have little else for it. After finishing the 300pt draft, I ran into some frustrating issues. One, that I haven't the foggiest how to properly balance them. If they have enough PD/ED, should there be more Resistant or not, how much damage is enough damage, what are the other skills I am missing, how many combat levels is too many, should I even take combat levels... Ect.

The quick answer is Benchmarks. (Btw what rule set you are using ?). Since 5th ed there are suggested Benchmarks for each genre. However you don’t have to use them at all. So really comes down to how you view the world and how the characters interact with “normals”.

 

[Sveta8]

6th Edition rulesets.

As for Benchmarks? Do you mean the Details put in at the front end? Cause Low Powered Superheros, the aim I sorta like the look of, vary a heck of a lot. Characteristics of 10 to 30, Speed from 3 to 8, CV and DV of 6 to 11... I can use those as a guideline for what to expect, putting it in the scale of Low to High with those, but the actual... numbering there, still leaves me a bit confused and wonky

 

[Ninja-Bear]

2 hours ago, Sveta8 said:

6th Edition rulesets.

As for Benchmarks? Do you mean the Details put in at the front end? Cause Low Powered Superheros, the aim I sorta like the look of, vary a heck of a lot. Characteristics of 10 to 30, Speed from 3 to 8, CV and DV of 6 to 11... I can use those as a guideline for what to expect, putting it in the scale of Low to High with those, but the actual... numbering there, still leaves me a bit confused and wonky

 

Yup.  Here’s a trick.  Take one of the sample Champion character from Vol. 2. and run Him against either a straight Normal or even a skilled normal.  That should give you a feel of Super versus Normal. 

[Hugh Neilson]

4 hours ago, Sveta8 said:

For those that are curious, or more likely, wind up waking up and seeing this, I found out I was thinking of one Advantage wrong.

Specifically, Inherit. I was confusing Inherit for both Inherit and Always On. While without Always on, the cost is significant, it is still less than buying the options individually.

Thus, I will likely be treating the Bestial nature as an Inherit Growth power, with Linked Powers going to it. Given that it doesn't cost much, I will not be placing a negative value to the powers for it. If you can change size at any time, while by in large (ha) you may not always be able to use all your powers at your disposal, it is not often that that exists as a true negative. Should others think otherwise, feel free to inform me as such.

 

I'm assuming you mean "inherent".  Inherent means that it is a core part of your being, such as the Desolid nature of a Ghost, or the ability of a fish to breathe water.  It is so fundamental to the character that it cannot ever be "turned off".  That's not an ability that could have Linked anything, nor would the character be able to shrink back to a normal human without the Shrinking power, or some other construct.  It is the same as building the character with the stats of a giant, the special effect of being a giant and the complication of being too large for the world around him.

 

Along the chain, we would start with Growth, which costs END every phase and shuts off if effort is not continuously exerted.  We could then move to Costs END only to Activate, which would stay grown until shut off, but still shut off if knocked out, for example.  The next step is Persistent (normally also requiring 0 END), which means that once the power is turned on, it stays on until he shuts it off.

 

After that, we get Always On (he cannot shut it off) and then Inherent (it can't even be drained or suppressed - it is the way he is).

 

Basically, you want two characters, a normal human and a monstrous alter ego.  That will carry some complexities since, as with most games, the norm is to have one character.  How you build it largely depends on what you want to achieve with it.  If the normal human is just backstory, then build the character with most or all powers Only in Alternate ID.  If space is too constrained to grow, or he wants to go incognito, he has to do without those powers.  Otherwise, he's the same guy.

 

At the extreme, build the Monstrous form, and take the complication for his Bulk at a reduced level  of frequency.  He can shrink down, but it means losing access to a lot of abilities.  How is that different from Only in Alternate ID?  Since you did not limit all those powers, it should not come up as often, nor be as detrimental, in game.  If you go with OIAID, expect some situations where you have to get by with none of those powers - even in a full combat.  With a Complication, you might occasionally be inconvenienced, perhaps even ambushed without your powers, but should readily be able to locate a space big enough to change.  But this requires a GM willing to play on the "my, it was sure convenient that there was a park right outside the building" game.  If he's going to envision your SFX with all the drawbacks of OIAID, you may was well build the character to suffer those drawbacks.

 

ILLUSTRATED:  Hero is not a game.  It is a system for building a game.  That makes building a character in a vacuum less practical.

[Sveta8]

55 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

ILLUSTRATED:  Hero is not a game.  It is a system for building a game.  That makes building a character in a vacuum less practical.

While to this, I do agree, I would also state that it does not make constructing a character in a vacuum impractical, simply less so than it would be in other systems. The exact mechanics of how the character works may change depending on the overall factors that the world around it allows. The stat distribution may change based on limitations and allowances put in by the Game Master. Even the SFX and the drawbacks may be adjusted based on the campaign, world, setting and genre. What it does allow however, is discussion such as this, and a way for people such as myself, to try and immerse themselves in the quiet nuance to not launch into anything entirely unprepared. 

As for the points you bring up, you are also correct there. I had missed the requirement of Inherent also having Always On if applicable. With that in mind, it makes sense, in theory, for the power Growth to be utilized not as Inherent, but as Persistent for what I am looking for. But in the end, I was, and am, looking not exactly for a correct answer to this power generation. There are many ways to construct a similar effect. That itself was the issue I was, and now to a far lesser extent am currently, experiencing. I was looking for expertise from people who have decades more experience on the topic. Pitfalls, Problems, Accidental Incorrect Interpretations, the more people whom can look over it and see what errs I've made, the more I can be confident in what I am doing. 

 

For example, while I was originally trying to achieve the effect via a Multiform, I am now working to produce the effect with a Persistent Growth Power. Ideally with a set of basic Unified Powers along with it. For while the Human portion is important and useful, most of their superhuman capabilities come when enlarged and with their SFX active. Whether this would constitute being a Complication of any sorts, I do not know, and that varies based upon the GM I may find, if this character even ever sees the light of day.

 

[Hugh Neilson]

To me, at least, there is a Complication in that here would be times the growth would be disadvantageous.  Tight confines aside, it's tough to be inobtrusive if you are 15' tall.

[Sveta8]

Indeed! And for right now, I have penciled in the problems that it would thus cause with an adjustable Complications, taking the resting form of
Enormous Size: Physical Complication (Common, Major)
to be adjusted based on both GM wants and needs.

 

Fortunately, the character, at least in their basic form, is done! And a game actually managed, so will be able to have more info... soonish?