HERO (Champions) 3rd Edition Mental Powers Question

[greypaladin_01]

While reviewing through more of the Champions (and Fantasy Hero) 3rd Edition rules, I noticed that Mental Powers worked a bit different from what I am used to.   I was curious if anyone knows the reasons for the change, and what peoples thoughts on keeping the older style in modern games would balance and feel like.

 

I am used to all Mental powers operating against EGO values, unless purchased otherwise of course, but in 3rd it seems that while Mind Control works vs EGO,  Illusions and Telepathy work against INT.    At first it seemed strange to me but thinking about it more, I feel that at least for Illusions it is "working out the inconsistencies"  not as sure about Telepathy.   I do also like the idea of having EGO not being the ONLY stat that matters for mental abilities, but was hoping for some input from people more familiar with the older rules.   

 

Did anyone have actual experience with these rules in play?   How did they feel at the table vs the more current design version?

[Duke Bushido]

I still play old editions.  I dabbled in 4e for a year or two, but douns myself eight back in 2e shortly after, and I have never seen anything in newer editions compelling enough to make me change.  Given the compatibikity backwards and forwards, if something I want does finally come along, I will likely just double the END cost and drag it backwards.

 

 

 

If it is any help, I can tell you what I see.

 

I see pretty accurate comic book characters (so far as I know, anyway) and pretty accurate pulp-esque Latern B Jaw versus the Swami type character builds.

 

 Obviously, this is all from one point of view: my knowledge of comic books is pretty thin, and at sixty-three years old, even what I do know is pretty dated (I wasnt a comic book kid, and did not become a comic book adult).

 

 

So let me skip ahead to my 4e experience:

 

Everyone had every defense.

 

There is no softer way to say that:  by the third oe fourth character, everyone had some od everything, defense-wise.  It hasnt changed in the rules, so I suspect that is still kind of the way that the game is played: "stadanrd defense package" or some such thing.  No matter what you want to call it, everyone had a little bit of everything, "just in case."

 

Sam, your character's name is Crowbar.  His powers are based on turning his body to iron.  Your powers are Growth, Density increase, plus 20 STR only in HERO ID, resistant hardened PD and ED.  This all makes sense.. I get the Knockback Resistance, and thank you for not foing overboard on that.

 

Explain the Flash Defense?  Okay, fine; your sunglasses are super sunglasses.  Explain the EGO Defense?

 

"Well, it is so much cheaper to mind control someone now, so I figur3d I had better take some, just in case...."

 

On top of the 30 EGO?!

 

"Well, it is so cheap  to mind control someone now....  I figured I would buy a few dice of that, and a higher EGO gives me a higher OCV--"

 

You're a brick!  You are -literally- a human boat anchor!  How does mind control fit into that?!

 

 

Things like that.

 

 

The old methods lead- at my tables; do remember this is anecdotal- to people more comfortable playing to type:  bricks didn't buy EGO defense because Ego powers were _expensive_!  People wanting to build an Egoist character went all-in.  I mean, they _had_ to if they wanted do be a real threat.  You didnt have that Egoist PC who also had an,incredible STR and a few martial arts maneuvers.  You got the comic-classic (and pulp classic) mental powers guy.

 

The TLDR version is that I found the total investment in mental powers required to be effective resulted in players much more comfortable in building characters who better-exemplifies the actual sort of character they wanted to play with a lot less dabbling in Ego Powers "because they are more effective now."

 

 

 

[greypaladin_01]

I started with 4e and did the most of my games under 5e, and while I did see a little of what you described, I was lucky enough to have most players keep to a concept pretty well.   Although I admit my brain is boggled at the cost changes to some powers and END with 3e.

 

How about the INT/EGO angle... did that ever cause any disconnects or did it play smoothly?

[Duke Bushido]

To this day, we play it a bit different.

 

Some things just "felt" better using EGO instead of INT.  Ego for mind control; Int for illusions-  that sort of thing.   We have been playing it that way for decades.  To be honest, though, it wasn't about any mechanical problems, as much as it was about what felt right for the powers and how we perceived them to work.

 

 

[greypaladin_01]

5 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

To this day, we play it a bit different.

 

Some things just "felt" better using EGO instead of INT.  Ego for mind control; Int for illusions-  that sort of thing.   We have been playing it that way for decades.  To be honest, though, it wasn't about any mechanical problems, as much as it was about what felt right for the powers and how we perceived them to work.

 

 

 

That is kinda what I was looking for to be honest.  The whole point of HERO-as-Toolkit is to change and adjust to fit.   I was just struck more by the EGO/INT difference, having never heard of that before.