Searphim Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 >Nightvision cost? >Hello all >I have been trying to find a answer to this on the board and I don’t see anything so I will ask here. >First so everyone knows exactly what I am talking about I will type out the power list as it is listed in my book (I know there newer version so mine maybe out of date and I can learn the way it really is >Nightvision: The character can see in total darkness (not including the power darkness, but including some forms of Change Environment which obscure vision) as though it were normal daylight. Cost 5 character points (+4 Enhanced Perception with –1/2 limitation Only to counteract darkness modifiers passive) >Now my question is this the way thought is bought and paid for is Enhanced Perception at the 2 point levels (4 x 2) =8/1.5 = 5 … why am I spending 5 points when I can buy +4 of the single sense for 4 points …and if a power has a limitation on it then a power can be bought without the limitation … >Nightvision is listed as a single sense so I can buy plus to this power at +1 point for 1 point >The whole limitation part seems wrong to me … can someone fill me in on this is my book wrong and a newer version have some other write up of this *end* *reply* >>This is no newer version of the book; you've got the most recent edition. >>You're overlooking the fact that Nightvision applies to the entire Sight Group, not just Normal Sight. If you want to change the cost for your games, or to allow characters to construct a similar ability just for Normal Sight, feel free; that's your perogative as the GM. But the official cost for Nightvision is, and will remain, 5 Character Points; making it cheaper would be unbalancingly effective. >>__________________ >>Steve Long >>HERO System Line Developer *new* I am moving this to the HERO GAMES Discussion Boards as I wish to talk about this a bit more and get input from others about this. From the answer I have been given from the wonderful Steve I feel the need to reply. This answer says to me that Nightvision is not a Sense at all its part of Normal Sight and should be treated as such it is a Enhanced Perception only. With that thought in mind lets look at the rest of the answer You're overlooking the fact that Nightvision applies to the entire Sight Group, not just Normal Sight Now nightvision is not a sense it’s a how well or bad you see at night and effects the entire group. Ok what else is in the Sight Group now that it nightvision out? Moving to back into the book (page 228) you find other things that are in the Sight Group (sorta), But does have +’s to normal sight at night effect them? Infrared Perception … is it affected by darkness? Ultraviolet Perception … is it affected by darkness well the answer is in the write up no. N-ray perception ... is it affected by darkness? (But this are not listed in the Sight Group there is only one in the Sight Group now that is truly effected by darkness, Normal Sight and to have +4 with Normal Sight at night is 4 points –1/2 useable only at night) I guess the real answer would be if a character has more then 1 sight that is affected by darkness then you need to buy the 2 point levels with the above limitation. But if you are only making your ability to use your Normal Sight better at night then it is only one. I could go on and talk about Darkvision or being nightblind but I think I have done enough for now Searphim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenixcrest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Honestly, it's a matter of what your GM wants you to be able to do. Night Vision is the unrealistic "You can just plain see at night" option, like if you cast a spell to make it as though total darkness is daylight for you. However, the others (infrared vision, UV vision, radar vision, etc) are the more realistic ones, which require something for you to be able to detect. Night Vision has no inherent drawbacks- you just see in the darkness, while with infrared vision you see heat. If there's no heat sources, or everything is cold, then it might just be pitch black. Of course, if you make infrared vision part of the sight group, and then get Night Vision (for the sight group), it has no effect, but if you had N-Ray vision as part of the sight group, you wouldn't be able to see jack at night unless you had something to allow you to see it (like Night Vision sight group.. or infrared sight group with heat sources). That was kind of incoherent, but I think I got my point across... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 *adds kerosene to open fire* Wait wait wait... Can't N-Ray vision see through Darkness? Then it would follow that it can see through night as well, would it not? We actually had a character with N-Ray vision that would not penetrate "well lit areas" ... we were incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenixcrest Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Originally posted by Farkling Can't N-Ray vision see through Darkness? Then it would follow that it can see through night as well, would it not? It depends on two things: sense category and SFX. N-Ray vision's SFX is that it detects objects through walls. Bought as its own sense in the "special" group, aka as its own group, it can see through darkness. However, you have to pay extra points to make it discriminatory (to differentiate between objects), or it's just spacial sense that makes you see sillouhettes. If it's bought in the sight group, it becomes discriminatory by default, but it also can't see through darkness (unless you also have night vision/infrared/whatever in your sight group, too), and it's subject to sight group flashes/darkness. That's the trade-off. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. ^^;; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 I'll go find my book and reread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 Well, each of these special Enhanced Senses function for different things: Infrared Perception sees heat patterns, and is useless when there is no difference in heat to distinguish; Ultraviolet Perception will reveal nothing where there's no source of UV light. All Nightvision does is counteract any penalties to seeing in full normal darkness (-4 to Perception). Not Darkness the Power, just darkness the absence of normal illumination. Now that absence of illumination may or may not affect other senses that belong to the Sight Sense Group, as per the concept of the player defining the sense and the ruling of the GM. If it should affect other senses than Normal Sight, then the bonus from Nightvision would benefit those senses too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Originally posted by Fenixcrest I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. ^^;; No, that is correct. If you "tie" N-Ray Perception to the Sight Group then it is affected by things which also affect the Sight Group. The trade off is that you get all the Discriminatory and Targeting aspects of normal sight for free on the N-Ray Perception. If you want to purchase N-Ray Perception and not tie it to a Sense Group then you must purchase it with Range, and Discriminatory, Targeting, etc depending on what the SFX of the N-Ray Perception is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkling Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Ah...that's it...it must've been a "sight not-sight" sense...the full Discrim and Targeting were paid for on the N-Ray... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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