The Gods Celestial?

[xenoz]

The Gods Celestial are briefly mentioned in Galactic Champions (hey, they have the same initials!) as mysterious entities who are powerful beyond measure and hold the status of gods worshipped by the gods themselves. I find the concept of such entities very intriguing and, to make it even more tantalizing, we get all of two paragraphs vaguely describing them on page 122 of GC. Presumably, the idea behind this ambiguity was to give players the explicit freedom to shape the Gods Celestial as they see fit to suit their own campaigns. It's one of those "something that's there if you want to use it" pieces of lore that also adds a layer of mystery to the cosmology of the CU.

 

So, I think I get the idea behind the Gods Celestial and the purpose of their seemingly cursory inclusion in GC, but it got me wondering, have there been any expansions upon the concept in other Champions sourcebooks? As far as I know, these two paragraphs are the single instance of them ever having been mentioned. Maybe there's another book I haven't read where they show up in more detail? Have any of the authors presented explanations for them elsewhere? If they haven't been mentioned at all in 6e books, which seems like it might be the case, they might have been so unimportant as to have been intentionally removed from the cosmology or simply forgotten.

 

Here's my first interpretation of their place in CU cosmology. Given that the Gods Celestial are worshipped by gods, which I assume refers to the deities of the Imaginal Realms and possibly cosmic beings like Galaxars and even Corelords, I suppose they could originate from Briah. One might think they could be aspects/avatars in the material plane of named entities like the Four Zoas, the Trickster, Kryptos, etc., but the text states that "each is an individual, with his own form and powers." This leads me to believe they are lesser Brialic entities, below the Prime Avatars and other powerful archetypal entities like Death, and perhaps denizens of the domains of such entities, who have some degree of free will.

 

That's just one possible explanation that could be used for a hypothetical cosmic campaign. They could also "simply" be the next step above Corelords in the Assiatic hierarchy, as beings responsible for controlling/monitoring/observing their respective dimensions and who might also take occasional trips to the dimensions of their fellow Dimension Lords (or whatever you might call such beings). Sort of like a more laidback version of the Monitors from the old 52 DC multiverse, since they reveal "themselves to lesser beings only in times of great crisis or when whimsy takes them."

 

If you've used them in your campaigns, how did you go about fleshing them out (if at all)?

[Lord Liaden]

As it happens, it's one of my hobbies to think about and tinker with Champions Universe cosmology.   I actually came up with my own rationale for the Gods Celestial. My concept is based on and inspired by hints and precedents from the published CU setting books, so it's compatible with them; but takes the ideas farther.

 

One clue comes from Champions Beyond p. 296 discussing the Progenitors, specifically their evolutionary Ascension: "By approximately three million years ago, the Progenitors had become so knowledgeable and powerful that they transcended the Reality of this plane of existence. They learned to transform their bodies into energy as well as other physical forms, and to rise through the dimensions to other places. A few of them became fascinated by this process and left Earth's plane never to return, but most were still absorbed in the Great Mission and remained here to continue it." And later, discussing The Progenitors Today: "Any one of them is far more powerful than nearly any superhuman, and any who choose to ascend into higher Realities likely become more powerful still." As you are clearly aware, those "higher realities" lie in Briah on the Sephirothic Tree of Life, in dimensions whose inhabitants are spirits embodying pure concepts.

 

The other clue comes from Champions Of The North describing CU Canada, which often refers to the "Four Great Spirits": the Land, the Sea, the Sky, and the Ice. These spirits sometimes involve themselves in affairs of the Canadian North, are connected to/served by other powerful entities such as the demonic Kigatilik (see Champions Villains Volume One: Master Villains), and have even empowered mortals to be their agents. Although they're presented in what appears to be a magical context, they come across as more "conceptual" than mere mythic gods; and some of their empowered champions wield cosmic-type powers, including the hero Celestar and villain Borealis.

 

All this led me to decree for my own games, that the Gods Celestial were once beings already of godlike power and status, either "mystic" or "cosmic," whose knowledge and wisdom enabled them to pierce the Veil of the Temple and ascend to Briah and a more transcendent existence. At least some of them retain a connection to Assiah, the Material World -- perhaps metaphysical, perhaps merely sentimental -- and still occasionally revisit it, if only in avatar form. And some of those still actively involve themselves in the affairs of the worlds they left behind.

 

Anyway, that's how I interpret the Gods Celestial. BTW I have my own notions about the Galaxars, the Corelords, and lots of other related stuff; but that's all getting much farther afield from what you asked about.

Edited April 20 by Lord Liaden

[xenoz]

41 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

As it happens, it's one of my hobbies to think about and tinker with Champions Universe cosmology.   I actually came up with my own rationale for the Gods Celestial. My concept is based on and inspired by hints and precedents from the published CU setting books, so it's compatible with them; but takes the ideas farther.

Hi, Liaden. I've seen some of your posts on the Champions Online forums! The playerbase (and devs) are fortunate to have a lore expert like you to convey the wealth of information found in the sourcebooks, especially the good deal that was never adapted to CO. I personally found that the most interesting lore was barely touched on, or not mentioned at all, by CO and their adaptation of the Qliphoth really didn't do the place justice. The Qliphothic Horrors group of enemies aren't much different from generic infernals and their take on the Shining Darkness as representing the entirety of the Qliphoth robs the place of much of its mystique and true horror. Your thread on the Qliphoth and the strange creatures that dwell in it is a great resource for those interested in learning more about the true Tree of Death.

 

41 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

All this led me to decree for my own games, that the Gods Celestial were once beings already of godlike power and status, either "mystic" or "cosmic," whose knowledge and wisdom enabled them to pierce the Veil of the Temple and ascend to Briah and a more transcendent existence. At least some of them retain a connection to Assiah, the Material World -- perhaps metaphysical, perhaps merely sentimental -- and still occasionally revisit it, if only in avatar form. And some of those still actively involve themselves in the affairs of the worlds they left behind.

This makes a lot of sense. Beings who originate from Briah might not be all that interested in the goings on of the lower realities, at least not enough to directly interfere with what transpires down there. But if they were former denizens of Assiah, like an Ascended Progenitor, then their attachment to their former home reality might sometimes draw them back to it. And beings with the power and knowledge to ascend to a higher reality would really have nowhere else to go, given that Yetzirah would probably seem rather mundane to such an entity since it doesn't take all that much effort to access the Astral World.

Still, I think the Gods Celestial could be a mix of such ascendant beings and natives of Briah. Those originating from Briah might be more likely to interact with the material plane "whenever whimsy takes to them" like capricious gods who sometimes enjoy toying with lesser beings and get a kick out of the events they can set into motion. Their lack of connection to Assiah could lead them to develop such an impersonal attitude towards its denizens. Then you have the ascendants who are more likely to appear when a crisis threatens a part of the material plane to which they have some kind of sentimental attachment. Given their ambiguous nature, Gods Celestial of either origin could have these or any other reason for showing up in Assiah (and even Yetzirah, if they felt like it).

The sentients of the material plane would probably not have the knowledge to differentiate between them, especially given how mysterious and sparse their appearances are, and would only know as much as any individual of the Gods Celestial is willing to share, which likely isn't much at all. This could mean the term Gods Celestial is a classification for such immeasurably powerful entities that, to our knowledge, do not belong to any other known cosmic groups. It might even include individuals of unrelated origins, such as beings who are neither ascendants to nor natives of Briah, making Gods Celestial a blanket term for unidentified nigh-omnipotent entities.

 

41 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Anyway, that's how I interpret the Gods Celestial. BTW I have my own notions about the Galaxars, the Corelords, and lots of other related stuff; but that's all getting much farther afield from what you asked about.

Your speculations are more than welcome, and I'm quite interested in reading them myself! If another meaty sourcebook is ever published, however unlikely this prospect may seem now, your involvement would benefit it greatly.

 

I should also mention that page 122 of Galactic Champions isn't the only place they've been mentioned, as I just noticed they were included in Champions Beyond on page 48. The two paragraphs remain mostly the same (the second paragraph is slightly altered, but without any new information), except for the addition of the following sentence at the end of the first paragraph: "If they have motivations and personalities, they are not apparent (or at best can be glimpsed only dimly) by lesser species such as Humans." I guess that counts as an expansion on the concept, even if it is just another statement on their enigmatic nature. At least we know they're still relevant to the latest edition of the CU. A small oversight that I'm glad I caught myself.

[Lord Liaden]

By the way, thank you for your kind words about my input to the Champions Online gamers. And welcome to the Pen and Paper side of the community!

[xenoz]

For CO players who want to dig deeper into the lore, your threads are a boon and could get some of them, like myself, interested enough in the source material to check out the TTRPG system and sourcebooks. But, to be honest, I'm more drawn to the lore than I am to the actual RPG. Especially the cosmic lore, which distinguishes itself from other superhero setting cosmologies with its esoteric sources of inspiration like the Kabbalah and William Blake's poetry. Props to the writers who managed to flesh out such a complex world structure while keeping things just ambiguous enough to imbue it with a sense of mystery.

Edited April 21 by xenoz

[DShomshak]

You're welcome!

 

DeanShomshak

[Lord Liaden]

As we should be.

 

For my own CU I've been weaving "cosmic" conceptual beings described in other Champions books into Dean's superb cosmological framework, as well as inventing a few of my own to fill perceived gaps. IMHO once you get into the realm of embodiments of principles of Reality, the distinction between "mystic" and "cosmic" seems rather artificial and meaningless. Heck, the first place Marvel's entities Eternity and the Living Tribunal appeared in was Doctor Strange's feature in Strange Tales. For a few CU concepts their cosmic and mystic embodiments actually seem redundant with each other.

Edited April 22 by Lord Liaden