Fantastic Growth/Shrinking

[Outsider]

As with Lifting, I was unhappy with the way size changes worked for a heroic, as opposed to

super heroic, campaign. I was especially unhappy with the rather abrupt nature of shrinking. One could be normal mass, or 1/8th in a single jump. Not much middle ground for the little folk to live in. As a result, I formulated the following house rules....

 

 

Fantastic Growth :

It seems to me that being many times more massive than your foe should do more on the positive side than add a bit of Body, Stun and DCs. So I thought about it and concluded that

Fantasy Growth should work as per normal growth, except :

1) In keeping with my linear lift rules, it does not add STR per se, but instead simulates greatly increased size/mass by doing the following :

___A) Giants lift ability operates as per the regular linear lifting rules, except their end total are doubled for every level of growth they have. Use the normal Encumbrance rules if they are equipped with goods of their own scale. If they are carrying something not thier scale, simply increase or decrease its mass appropriately (Halve or double per level of diference) The same rule applies to non- giants carrying off-scale equipment, of course.

___ Instead of adding strength for weapons damage, I decided to increase damage as per DI explosives, that is that twice as much adds 2DC. Each level of growth, so long as the giant is equipped with properly scaled weapons, adds 2 base DC to the weapon. The effect of using an under-scale weapon is that the user adds only 1 DC per level of scale difference, and also loses 1 OCV per scale difference. If using an over-scale weapon, each scale of difference increases the strength min by 5 and decreases OCV by 1.

Thus a (1 level) Giant Shortsword is a +1 OCV 1 1/2 D6 HKA weapon requiring 10 Str to use for a 1 level Giant. A human size perosn could also use it, but for them it would be 0 OCV mod, 1 1/2 D6 HKA, with a 15 str min. Nobody can even attempt to use weapons that are more than 3 scales different from their own.

___C) As to Armor, simple geometry shows us that the relationship between increased volume vs increased surface area on an objectn of a given shape is a relationship of cubes to squares. That is to say that doubling an objects linear dimensions will result in it having 8 times the volume but only 4 times the surface. Ergo, a giant's armor either has more DEF for the same relative encumberance, or it has the same DEF for less relative encumberance. So, for each 3 levels of growth, the giant may choose either to add 2 DEF, or have half encumberance on his armor. (Giant plate armor = DEF 10, as the plates are actually twice as thick, or, at 8 DEF, it only encumbers the giant as much as 20kg, rather than 40kg.) If one is dealing with less than a full 3 level set of growth levels, half effect (1 DEF or 0.7*kg) happens with 2 levels, and one level has no functional effect. If materials that the armor is made out of are kept track of, each level of growth doubles the materials required (halved/0.7*sed, if the giant opts for less ENC over greater DEF) .

___D) Each Level continues to add 1 BODY, 1 STUN, -1" Knockback, and every 3 levels doubles reach, loses the giant 2 DCV, and gives their opponents +2 on perception rolls against them. (with 2 levels in the remainder after dividing by 3 counting as half (ie -1 DCV, 1.5* reach, +1 pers rolls)

 

 

Note : Initially, I also thought giants should run/swim faster, given their longer legs and all that.

On thinking about the physics involved, though, it turns out that they actually wouldnt. Consider

a Giant who is twice normal human height (and thus eight times as massive). One might initially

think he would have 12" running if a regular scale human has 6" running. Consider the following,

though. The Human weighs in at 100 kg, the Giant at 800 kg. Say the human runs at 20 KPH.

that means his body, which weighs 100 kg, generates enough energy to move 100 kg at 20

KPH, making his Energy Generated Per Kg of Flesh = "20". A giant, though, were he to be

able to run twice as fast, would be generating enough energy with 800kg of flesh to move 800

kg at 40 KPH, making his Energy Generated Per KG of Flesh = "40", or twice that of a human.

Now, Aside from the necessary hand waving of structural stresses, I've always pictured humans

and Giants as being made, more or less, of the same stuff. Hence Giants dont get a movement

bonus.

 

 

 

Fantastic Shrinking

Basically, each level of fantastic shrinking works like 1/3 of a level of regular shrinking. And -should- end up creating a similar relationship between shrunk people and normal sized ones as normal sized ones have with giants.

Each level of Fantasy Shrinking results in :

A) AS per the Giant rules, only their final lift result is halved per level of shrinking, and their encumberance works the same. their own scale equipment is normally encumbering to them, but will be less so (by a factor of 2 per level difference) for larger folk.

Underscale Weapons (-2 Base DC per level of shrinking, same encumberane and interaction rules as overscale ones.

C) Relatively thinner armor. Works like the relatively thicker armor of Giants, only the other direction (weaker or heavier for the same ENC/DEF)

D) Each level of Fantasy Shrinking adds +1" Knockback. Every 3 levels, +2 CV, and -2 to others Perception Rolls, and every two levels beyond those divisible evenly by three, +1 CV, and -1 to others perception rolls. At 3 levels or more, the character's normal reach does not extend out of his hex.

 

 

 

 

As to point cost...

 

Growth (3 levels)

(15) Octuples Lift

(30) Adds 6DC

(4) Adds 2 DEF on worn armor (Armor OIF)

(12) Adds 3 Body, 3 Stun, 3 knockback Resistance

(5) Adds 1" (or so) reach

(-10) Loses 2 DCV

(-6) Opponents gain 2 pers roll

50 total for 3 levels

 

Shrinking (3 Levels)

(-15) 1/8 lift

(-30) Lose 6 DC

(-4) Lose 2 DEF on armor worn

(-3) Lose 3 Knockback Resistance

(-5) -1" reach

(20) Gain 2 CV (thats OCV and DCV)

(6) Opponents lose 2 to pers rolls

-31 total for 3 levels.

 

 

SO :

Fantastic Growth = 17 points/level

Fantastic Shrinking = -10 points/level (yes, you save points)

 

(Both are always on persistent, no end cost. IF the character is living in a situation where his size hampers him beyond the parameters taken into account above, he may get an extra character limitation (distinctive features, or phys lim) to represent the extra difficulty of being a different than normal scale. Do recall, though, that in a quasi-medieval setting a -lot- of stuff is hand made, so the physical disadvantage of being over/under sized is less than it would be in the modern world)

[Outsider]

I still need to do some more work on the shrinking half. I was thinking every 3 levels might lose the character 2 Body and 2 stun also, as a mirror to Growth.

 

That would make it even more of a point loser, too.

[GrimJesta]

Im in the middle of making Trolls for my homebrew setting, so Im gonna toy with this tonight. I too am only half-content with the current Grw/Shr powers, so maybe Ill find this one to be more satisfying.

 

-=Grim=-

[keithcurtis]

Those are all logical points, but somehow it makes it feel less fantastic. You've pointed out the scientific problems with giants in general. (In short, it is the cross-section of muscle that determines ultimate strength, not the volume). Giants need to be proportioned differently than humans in order to "work", but then they cease to be giants and become some freakishly shaped things. Giant humans aren't possible in the first place, so working out the physics of them seems counter-productive. It feels like overthinking the problem.

Still, if it makes it work better in your game, then you're doing the right thing. It's certainly well thought out.

 

Keith "Spindrift Observer* " Curtis

 

---

*There's an obscure reference

[AnotherSkip]

Frankly I would challenge some of your assumptions, but I won't.

 

however I would associate certain reasonable things with changes rather than just pointing them out.

 

after all x4 times the height of your opponent can cause more problems than it solves.

 

Where do you come up with the costing for octupling lift and other odd beasties?

 

Also by your own math Giants should be able to move faster, if they expend more energy? No?

buy incraesed movements with X end costs associated....