Joint Locks, Cat's Claws, and a world of hurt for YOU buddy....

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Got a question for the forum that was inspired by a guy who was showing me a shapechanging PC.

 

When I play with my cats it’s not uncommon for them to ‘grab’ my hand with their front claws and then go to town biting and raking with their rear claws.

 

In champs terms this is superficially easy enough. Grab then a maneuver that is ‘must follow’ grab. However in real life I’m easily strong enough to ‘break’ the grab but I almost never do … because if I did then those front claws would tear a ton of skin on the way out.

 

That got me thinking. When I studied Hapkido I did a lot of similar maneuvers. I studied how to put an opponent in a joint lock where the joint lock itself does little or no damage … but if my opponent were to try to break out it would hurt them a *lot*.

 

How would one model this using HERO rules? I.E. model a grab that isn’t based on STR but instead does damage if the target tries to break it.

 

While I don’t have the Beastiery or the 5th ed UMA, I do have the 4th ed UMA, Ninja Hero, and tons of other older stuff … but I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a way to do this discussed.

 

Anyone have suggestions?

[austenandrews]

Interesting thought. I suppose it could be something like a Grab-Strike combination, where the Strike is defined as a Cover maneuver. The trick is, how can the person break out without harming himself? Or can he? Cover has that inherent distraction factor, but I'm not sure if it matters here.

 

-AA

[BoneDaddy]

how about a 0 range entangle that reflects the damage back at the entangled party? Its not perfect, but its easy, and I think it gets the job done.

[dugfromthearth]

basically you want either backlash, backlash which does dmg even if you break out, or for the grab to be resisted by EGO or CON instead of Str (reflecting that you can break free if you can ignore the pain of doing so).

 

not sure how to do it with a maneuver.

[Nevenall]

What about something like this.

Your cat makes a multiple power attack, with front claws and rear claws. For the front claw attack your cat uses a cover maneuver, that way there is no immediate damage, and you can avoid it if you can some how distract your cat and slip your hand out. The rear claws is just an attack.

[dugfromthearth]

cover is a great idea

 

now with a grab you can also do str dmg.

 

I wonder if you could do a grab-cover with the effect of a grab, but the str dmg is "covered". So if you want you can do the str dmg unless they slip out.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

So folks like cover ... my question then becomes how do you build this into a combat maneuver? Secondly can you continue to attack after a normal cover?

 

For instance the cat above might have "Grab 1 limb, Cover with 1 pip HKA (autofire 2), you fall ... then the cat starts attacking with another HKA.

 

One of my Hapkido maneuvers was "Grab 1 limb, Opponent falls, Cover with 1/2d6 HKA ... after that you could in theory head stomp him or something too, though the move was mostly designed to just keep someone from moving for a while.

[Nevenall]

Here is how I imagine your Hapkido example going.

Someone may have to correct my details though.

So, you buy a Joint Lock maneuver which grabs 1 limb and causes killing damage. Then once you grab someone you can choose to throw them, damage them, or just hold them. I don't think holding someone restricts you from making other attacks against them, such as stomping their head.

Normally, grab damage done after the original grab counts as a separate attack and requires an attack roll. But, if you used cover with the original grab, then you could do the grab damage to the target whenever you wanted. Though I would say the first time you did covered grab damage the cover part would be over and your maneuver would go back to being a regular grab maneuver.

[Greatwyrm]

I may be a little off base here, but could you set it up as an attack with Trigger - "only if enemy tries to escape grab"?

[Nevenall]

Originally posted by Greatwyrm

I may be a little off base here, but could you set it up as an attack with Trigger - "only if enemy tries to escape grab"?

 

No, you are absolutely right. That would be the most elegant way to do it, but it would involve buying another attack, or at least a naked advantage.

I was trying to think of a way to do it without spending points.

[AnotherSkip]

MPA soulds like the best scenarion for no pointers.

 

for really expensive go Damage Shield!!!!