Superhumans pulling an Authority

[David Blue]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Thread drift...

I didn't mean to drift the thread.

 

I said that I think that superhumans acting in the way the original post suggested would be vulnerable to flatterers, and they might wind up with unfortunate results for that reason.

 

I also said, I think superhuman rulers could do a great job and be of benefit to mankind if:

* they resisted the flatterers

* they refrained from bulldozing any countries that were already providers of charity and instead functioned only as receivers of countries that were bankrupt in every way

* they acted to sway people through the glamor and tradition of monarchies, through the appeal of superhumanly correct ideologies well explained, through the influence of a good example (successful countries that were once unsuccessful), through the legitimacy of social contracts, by validating their rule with the people in the countries they ruled through results (in human rights, security and economic terms), and only by appeal to force as a last resort.

 

Since I think benefits are important, the way I see this working out well for the superhuman rulers, it seemed reasonable to talk about what benefits they could confer.

 

I think they can hand out ample goodies.

 

Reed Richards doesn't need to be able to give everyone a functioning copy of his best stuff, much less teach them up to the point where they can invent their own. It's enough for him to distribute technologies that are easily adopted and generalized, once people think of them, and that will change how mankind lives.

 

I think that the alternate worlds, like Earth Six, that was revealed and destroyed in the Crisis of Infinite Earths, are plausible. Lord Volt, Lady Quark and Princess Fern rule, and it is good. It would be natural for her later to approach a suitable male superhero with the idea of his becoming her consort and them creating another benevolent monarchy, because it had worked before. She would know how easily it could work, and what to do and what not to do.

[nexus]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

I think, in practice, a guy who could withstand a nuclear bomb, and who had the destructive power equivalent to same, could not be dictated to by the state. He could only be negotiated with.

So, at a level where supers can laugh off conventional military hardware(700+ points, I'd assume), and dish out tremendous firepower in various forms(hurricanes, cities covered in ice, city-block leveling energy blasts, etc.), this is not only a possibility but a real concern for state actors(i.e., governments and agencies affiliated therewith). If Doctor Destroyer had a half dozen like-minded pals anywhere near his power level, he could take over a major country like Brazil or Indonesia, and there's not a lot that could be done initially to stop them.

 

Isn't that part of what of what Warlord and his crew are planning, as a matter of fact?

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

Speaking realistically it might be more practical for a group of superheroes to take over some patch of territory somewhere and declare themselves a sovereign state. Then they join the UN and simply become the most militant and interfering member-state.

 

So for example in the recent conflict in Georgia they would have demanded that the UN sanction them going in and de-militarising the hell out of everything that moved. Then they'd have done it anyway when the UN proved reluctant. Real world Superpowers have gotten away with this sort of thing before.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

I didn't mean to drift the thread.

 

I said that I think that superhumans acting in the way the original post suggested would be vulnerable to flatterers, and they might wind up with unfortunate results for that reason.

 

I also said, I think superhuman rulers could do a great job and be of benefit to mankind if:

* they resisted the flatterers

* they refrained from bulldozing any countries that were already providers of charity and instead functioned only as receivers of countries that were bankrupt in every way

* they acted to sway people through the glamor and tradition of monarchies, through the appeal of superhumanly correct ideologies well explained, through the influence of a good example (successful countries that were once unsuccessful), through the legitimacy of social contracts, by validating their rule with the people in the countries they ruled through results (in human rights, security and economic terms), and only by appeal to force as a last resort.

 

Since I think benefits are important, the way I see this working out well for the superhuman rulers, it seemed reasonable to talk about what benefits they could confer.

 

I think they can hand out ample goodies.

 

Reed Richards doesn't need to be able to give everyone a functioning copy of his best stuff, much less teach them up to the point where they can invent their own. It's enough for him to distribute technologies that are easily adopted and generalized, once people think of them, and that will change how mankind lives.

 

I think that the alternate worlds, like Earth Six, that was revealed and destroyed in the Crisis of Infinite Earths, are plausible. Lord Volt, Lady Quark and Princess Fern rule, and it is good. It would be natural for her later to approach a suitable male superhero with the idea of his becoming her consort and them creating another benevolent monarchy, because it had worked before. She would know how easily it could work, and what to do and what not to do.

 

What you're basically saying is "it works if the people in charge are good". You can say the same about any monarchy or dictatorship; if the leader is intelligent, charismatic, capable, and honest, it can turn into a good state. The problem is that just doesn't happen that often. People are flawed, and being able to bench-press a battleship doesn't change that fact.

[David Blue]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

What you're basically saying is "it works if the people in charge are good". You can say the same about any monarchy or dictatorship; if the leader is intelligent' date=' charismatic, capable, and honest, it can turn into a good state. The problem is that just doesn't happen that often. People are flawed, and being able to bench-press a battleship doesn't change that fact.[/quote']

It takes more than being able to bench-press a battleship, or I'd be arguing that rule by super-villain was a good thing.

 

But super-heroes are more than powerful. They are good. And sometimes, they're defined clearly as superhumanly wise.

 

When:

* the people who will be in charge are good, and

* they are very powerful, and

* they are very attractive and persuasive, and

* they are very wise (e.g. if the Amazon way is actually correct, as advertised), and

* if there are people who are willing to follow...

 

Then yes I think this can work.

 

If the battleship bench-pressers are basically creeps, or if they mean well but can't uphold what they say when push comes to shove (Like Lady Quark and Starman, who just didn't have enough muscle for the job, in the face of the Justice League etc.), or if they are scary monsters who arouse prejudice and can't get their way except by force, or if they are fundamentally wrong (if the Amazon way doesn't work except with an immortal and childless all-female population), or if the Joker is right and people are more inclined to submit to terrorism and blow each other up than to be inspired by a good example - then no, rule by supers won't work.

[input.jack]

Re: Superhumans pulling an Authority

 

So, basically, like a lot of things, it all depends on the tone of the campaign and the Players' actions.

 

Fair enough