Bloodstone Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Lets say we have a character that has impressive aray of minor Telepathic/Telekinetic powers, most of them in a multipower. This character has also developed a gadget that, when worn, supplies a signifigant boost to all of his Psi powers. Sort of in the vein of a warable mini-Cerebro, but not quite that powerful... At first, I built the Collar as a OIF End Reserve. Then I planned to have his Psi Powers take Limited Power (half as effective without Psi Amplification Collar). However, that nets the character a HUGE point break (it's a -1). That's actually better then having all of his poweres derived from an OIF (which is only -1/2) and thus seems way too good for what the concept is here. What would be the best way to construct this device and the characters powers? Should I design the OIF with some kind of long duration Aid that targets his multipower? Should I write this up some kind of Disadvantage instead? Something else that a novice like me just ain't seein' here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted April 18, 2004 Report Share Posted April 18, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar To do it correctly you have to use the Naked Power Advantage mechanic. The active points of this power would be the points you saved on the Limited power. You can then apply the OIF modifier for the device. Another way to do it is to simply make all your powers as Compound Powers with one section OIF. That is the simplest way to go. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar A -1 has got to be incorrect for something like this. Thats the same as an OAF, and this is merely an OIF, and only for half the Powers. I'd do this one of two ways, either of which is legal in my opinion. Either put a -1/4 Half Power Without OIF Focus (half the value of OIF) on those Powers that are affected, or buy what you can do without the Focus normally and by the bonus the Focus provides with the Focus Limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted April 19, 2004 Report Share Posted April 19, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar Aid might be the way to go on this, standard effect continuing charge aiding all powers of the Sx (psionics). Take OIF and a limitation for "instant fade," AP from Aid disappear instantly when focus removed. Now the downside, can be taken an used by an opponent mentalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar The way I have done this in the pass is illegal per the rules BUT having said that: Buy the amount of power you can normaly use (W/O Foci) as strait power Then buy the additional with a foci Unfortunatly steve says this is a no no, tough doodie, that's how it;s done in my games. Officialy you would have to use Aid, self only... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar The way I have done this in the pass is illegal per the rules BUT having said that: Buy the amount of power you can normaly use (W/O Foci) as strait power Then buy the additional with a foci Unfortunatly steve says this is a no no, tough doodie, that's how it;s done in my games. Officialy you would have to use Aid, self only... When did Steve say this was illegal? He says in his own book that it's perfectly legal (Partial Limited Powers, FREd page 180). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar I always thought that rule applied to things like 10d6 EB in a MP and 5d6 EB in an EC and then saying they "worked together" to create a 15d6 EB. That is a no-no. But DR is right you can create as a compound power as long as it is a single slot. Characteristics are immune to this rule, you can purchase them whereever and however, and however many times as you like. They all add together. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar Characteristics are immune to this rule, you can purchase them whereever and however, and however many times as you like. They all add together. Hawksmoor Really? I thought the rule still applied. I understand that you can have a Power or Characteristic outside of any Framework (which would include your normal Characteristics) and have it add to one that is, but not combine two instances of the same Characteristic bought through two seperate Frameworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar Well I am not certain if it is offical. In the BBB Characteristics were Special powers and could only be placed in a Framework on express GM approval. Strange statement since *everything* has to have GM approval but I digress. In general though think about it. DEX 14 Super has a magic belt granting +9 DEX as part of an overal enhancement effect. The now DEX 23 Super has a MP with +10 DEX defined as a spell of Cat's grace. The later in the Turn he shifts his VPP to gain +5 DEX through another spell this time defined as shifting into a form that is more Dexterous such as an Elf. The Supermage now has a 38 DEX (10 BASE +4 Norm Characteristic +9 Magic Belt +10 Spell +5 Shapeshift Note that HERO does not work on the principle of only one type of enhancement, that is a D20 thing. In general all things stack as far as it goes with Characteristics. The only No -No is in building Attack powers or Movement Powers from different places and trying to stack them. Defenses STACK and Characteristics Stack, it only makes sense. Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar The simplest way would be to buy the additional powers (even if they are more powerful versions of your inherent powers) as a multipower OIF Amplifier (with ultra slots for most cost effectiveness). I don't see why you couldn't buy a portion of a power through a focus, as I don't think it would be too unbalancing (assuming a GM will actually nastily go for those Obvious focuses like he/she should). I just think this option is the most complex, and I happen to prefer the simplest method if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar When did Steve say this was illegal? He says in his own book that it's perfectly legal (Partial Limited Powers' date=' FREd page 180).[/quote'] About 3 or 4 months after 5th was published. here is the quote from the FAQ Q: Can a character have a partially-Limited Multipower reserve? A: No, unless the GM chooses to permit this for some reason when asked about page 180 (IIRC) he said something akin to it is badly worded, but was never intended to cover the reserve just the slots (I found it weak at the time, and still disagree with it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar Well I am not certain if it is offical. In the BBB Characteristics were Special powers and could only be placed in a Framework on express GM approval. Strange statement since *everything* has to have GM approval but I digress. In general though think about it. DEX 14 Super has a magic belt granting +9 DEX as part of an overal enhancement effect. The now DEX 23 Super has a MP with +10 DEX defined as a spell of Cat's grace. The later in the Turn he shifts his VPP to gain +5 DEX through another spell this time defined as shifting into a form that is more Dexterous such as an Elf. The Supermage now has a 38 DEX (10 BASE +4 Norm Characteristic +9 Magic Belt +10 Spell +5 Shapeshift Note that HERO does not work on the principle of only one type of enhancement, that is a D20 thing. In general all things stack as far as it goes with Characteristics. The only No -No is in building Attack powers or Movement Powers from different places and trying to stack them. Defenses STACK and Characteristics Stack, it only makes sense. Hawksmoor That's just wrong. If you can do it with Characteristics you should be able to with EB and RKA as well or not at all. Another thought though, most of those abilities could also be represented by using Aid (or even Multiform for the Elf form), so long as the max values on each can account for all of them being used on the same target. The DEX through the magic belt is better left as DEX though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar About 3 or 4 months after 5th was published. here is the quote from the FAQ when asked about page 180 (IIRC) he said something akin to it is badly worded, but was never intended to cover the reserve just the slots (I found it weak at the time, and still disagree with it) I remember that! Wasn't he just refering to the Mulipower Reserves? That doesn't make it invalid, it just means that you can't have a partially limited reserve (kinda like a partially limited VPP, sound more than a bit off when I think if it that way). In any case, if that's all it is, there's nothing wrong with making an "Unlimited" Multipower" and a "Limited Multipower" that has slots that add to the other, so long as the GM approves and you don't plan on submitting the character for publication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted April 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Re: Psi Amplification Collar I finally nailed how to do this. It's probably still not perfect, but it looks like it will work pretty much the way I want it to. First, I gave the character a low level MP (Natural Psionics) with a few basic, limited abilites. All of the powers in this MP can be used without the collar on. They are a bit weeker then I had origionally intended, but I think it's still quite playable. Then I made the Psi Amplification Collar as an OIF END reserve, with extra Mental Defense, EGO and SPEED (only for mental actons) built in for good measure. Then I split all his other abilites into three more powerful MP's (Telepathy, ESP, Mind over Matter), all of which or OIF. All of the powers in those MP's only draw end from the reserve as well. All in all, I like how it shaped up and I thank everyone for the advice they gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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