Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

You never pay for STR more than once per Phase regardless of how many uses you get out of it. Page 20' date=' under STR.[/quote']Yah. But one of the later books put an exception to that to require END for STR for each attack in a Phase. (Dark Champions??? I'll look it up tonight if I get the chance.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Yah. But one of the later books put an exception to that to require END for STR for each attack in a Phase. (Dark Champions??? I'll look it up tonight if I get the chance.)

If you can find it post it, because that is counter to the main rulebook and the FAQ.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

If you can find it post it' date=' because that is counter to the main rulebook and the FAQ.[/quote']I know, that's why it caught my eye on reading through the book. My thining was along the lines of, "A broken fix to a broken rule. Every other use of STR only counts once, why is this different? Game balance. The original rule should have been that you can only use your STR once per Phase to add to attacks (although you could proportion it out among them however you wanted). That fixes STR and MPAs/Sweeps. Hmmph!".

 

[sCUBA Hero - armchair game designer/critic]

 

Okay, I'll dig through my books tonight and find it and post it.

[Zanthis]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

One quick "END only once/phase for STR" exception from the FAQ:

 

Q: Since a character only pays END once per Phase for all uses of STR, does that mean if he has an Autofire STR-based attack (such as Autofire for his Punch, HA, or HKA), that he only has to pay END once no matter how many punches he throws?

 

A: No, he has to pay END for every punch. You correctly cite the general rule, but the potential abusiveness of that rule in this situation is obvious, so the GM should apply the standard END rule for Autofire attacks.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Thanks, Zanthis! I just found that piece of the FAQ and was going to post it here, but you beat me to it.

 

I'll still go through the books tonight though, Killer Shrike.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

One quick "END only once/phase for STR" exception from the FAQ:

 

Q: Since a character only pays END once per Phase for all uses of STR, does that mean if he has an Autofire STR-based attack (such as Autofire for his Punch, HA, or HKA), that he only has to pay END once no matter how many punches he throws?

 

A: No, he has to pay END for every punch. You correctly cite the general rule, but the potential abusiveness of that rule in this situation is obvious, so the GM should apply the standard END rule for Autofire attacks.

Hmm...missed that.

 

Nice exception. Hopefully that bit will make it into 5er

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Okay' date=' I'll dig through my books tonight and find it and post it. [/quote']I must admit, I was unable to find the reference last night. I gave Dark Champions a pretty thorough going-over, and glanced through both Galactic Champions and Fantasy Hero. No luck. Sorry.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Did you check the ultimate brick? It deals w/ STR a lot. Id look but were getting ready to move in a couple of weeks and I already packed all of my "nonessential" HERO books along w/ all my other gaming books. I kept out just enough to run another couple of session of Champions Universe with.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Did you check the ultimate brick? It deals w/ STR a lot.

Doh! That's probably it. I'll look tonight. Thanks.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Good Deduction roll, Killer Shrike.

 

The Ultimate Brick, p. 7, 'Strength and Endurance': "On the other hand, this rule does not apply to STR-based attacks (punches, HAs, HKAs, and so on) with the Autofire Advantage, to the use of STR to Sweep one or more targets, or to any other situation or game element that would allow a character to make two or more STR-based attacks in a Phase. In those situations, the character has to pay END once for each attack."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Good Deduction roll, Killer Shrike.

 

The Ultimate Brick, p. 7, 'Strength and Endurance': "On the other hand, this rule does not apply to STR-based attacks (punches, HAs, HKAs, and so on) with the Autofire Advantage, to the use of STR to Sweep one or more targets, or to any other situation or game element that would allow a character to make two or more STR-based attacks in a Phase. In those situations, the character has to pay END once for each attack."

Heh. Thats not an exception, thats nearly a complete reversal.

 

Thanx for the look up!

[JMHammer]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

Excerpt from TUB:

"... In those situations, the character has to pay END once for each attack."

While I'm certain the writer of this passage meant to imply that a character must pay Endurance each time Strength is used in an attack (my certainty coming from the earlier "On the other hand..." portion of this excerpt), that is not what is said. The writer states that one "has to pay END once for each attack," which means once only. The writer should have stated, "... the character has to pay END for each attack," or, "... the character pays END for each attack attempted." The use of "once" in the published document changes the entire meaning of the sentence.

 

John H

[Zanthis]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

This is due to the author's Psychological Disadv: Occasionally Obfuscates Ordinances (Very Common, Moderate). This was necessary to support the Perks: Published Author, Money and Babes. Whether it's munchkiny or not is personal opinion.

[zornwil]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

They're also legal in our campaign, but no one (including the GMs) has ever used one. I think that's mostly because we don't really understand how they work.

 

We've seen some limited use of Sweep, mostly by MAs and bricks with several Skill levels.

I kind of allow them, with some limitations, but no takers, either, similar reasoning I believe, plus these are all long-time players used to working without them and being effective, so they haven't seen a situation, I think, where they've wanted to push this.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Multiple Power Attacks: Abused?

 

I kind of allow them' date=' with some limitations, but no takers, either, similar reasoning I believe, plus these are all long-time players used to working without them and being effective, so they haven't seen a situation, I think, where they've wanted to push this.[/quote']

 

This is really where my games have been as well. Though, I realized that we WERE allowing them already, by default, in one situation. A couple of characters are two-gun kids. Two full sets of powers bought to reflect carrying two identical handguns. We've always allowed them to fire both, with the basic Spread modifiers (-2 for every shot cumulative beyond the first). This was just something that seemed to work... but we'd never made the logical leap to "If I can pull both triggers in one action... why can't I punch, legsweep in one action?" or "Why can't I Eye beam, super breath in one action?"

 

I've essentially allowed MPAs openly, now... and we'll see where they go. I'm not as concerned that they will make one character over powered (villains can do it to the heroes, too) as much as it could make games much more into "sniper" games... where the first one to hit, wins. If you can deal the same damage, in one round, that might have taken 2 to three rounds, that can be worrisome. Instead of taking a hit or two and engaging in a dramatic fight, it might come down to "Unload everything at you! You at me! One big kaboom... now who's standing?" That could take some flavor out of the game, which I don't want.

 

I guess we'll see.