Area of affect (using it sometimes)

[paul_runstedler]

Say I have an EB bought with AOA (cone), and I want to be able to use that EB either with the AOA advantage in use, or simply use it as a directed attack?

 

What do you think the best way of approaching this is?

(obviously I could buy it as two completely separate powers, but the costs would be prohibitive. Maybe a multipower? Is there a better way?)

[SuperBlue]

Put it into a Multipower, and buy 2 Ultra Slots: One with the AoE and one without.

[tesuji]

buy a naked advantage "area of effect cone of **** powers" as a separate power and buy your Eb normally as one of those types of powers.

 

The advantage to this method is two fold...

 

1. if you buy more "type of *** powers in the future you can apply this naked advantage to it. The new *** would be in a multipower of course, iirc.

 

2. You do not end up having to pay additional points for "slot costs"... which would save you 18 cp assuming 12d6 EB.

 

there are plenty of examples of naked advantages being used when multipowers would have been just as viable in the various book examples to support this. One of the best is putting megascale as a naked advantage so you can use the power normal or megascale at whim.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by SuperBlue

Put it into a Multipower, and buy 2 Ultra Slots: One with the AoE and one without.

 

That's the standard solution, though I don't find it to be truly adequate, because the typical AE attack is half the damage of the regular EB (due to the +1 advantage), and at half damage, is marginally effective even against goons. Because of the way that MPs work, additional limitations to cut cost are marginally effective (only cutting 1-2pts on the slot cost), while you may be trying to design a power with a greater AP than the rest in the MP, but with a limitation (e.g., Extra Time, Extra END, etc.). However, a rough fix can be done as follows:

 

60pt MP: (Cost 60pts)

Ultra-Slot 1: 12D6 EB (Cost 6pts)

Ultra-Slot 2: 6D6 EB AE (Cost 6pts)

 

and separate from the MP, buy:

 

+3D6 EB AE, with Extra END or other lim (-1/2 Lim) (Cost 20pts)

 

IIRC, you can't apply a "Linked" lim to the above AE "adder", else it would go off as a separate attack (i.e., you'd hit with a 6D6 and 3D6 AE attack), each with smaller radii. Note, it typically isn't worth buying but 1 of these MP "adders", usually it's better to just increase the MP.

 

Alternatively to all of the above, your GM might simply let you buy the AE advantage as a naked advantage (much like the Explosion Advantage on STR example in the 5e book), though he might not let you buy the base EB up but so high due to AP considerations. Note also that the use of naked advantages such as are in the book seem contradictory to other Hero gospel, in that as a rule, you are unable to use a power without its advantages - the concept of a "naked" advantage basically flies in the face of this rule, not to mention the ramifications of being able to use the base power without the naked advantage, thus costing less END, etc., making "naked advantages" clearly superior to the normal advantages setup. Since Hero games has clearly allowed the concept of naked advantages, it should recognize this contradiction, and address it, for instance by saying that one can use a power without its advantages, depending on the sfx, and not have to pay the END for it. But enough of that soapbox

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by tesuji

buy a naked advantage "area of effect cone of **** powers" as a separate power and buy your Eb normally as one of those types of powers.

 

The advantage to this method is two fold...

 

1. if you buy more "type of *** powers in the future you can apply this naked advantage to it. The new *** would be in a multipower of course, iirc.

 

2. You do not end up having to pay additional points for "slot costs"... which would save you 18 cp assuming 12d6 EB.

 

there are plenty of examples of naked advantages being used when multipowers would have been just as viable in the various book examples to support this. One of the best is putting megascale as a naked advantage so you can use the power normal or megascale at whim.

 

Heh, just saw your post after I finished typing my treatise.

[Uncle Shecky]

Originally posted by slaughterj

... Note also that the use of naked advantages such as are in the book seem contradictory to other Hero gospel, in that as a rule, you are unable to use a power without its advantages - the concept of a "naked" advantage basically flies in the face of this rule, not to mention the ramifications of being able to use the base power without the naked advantage, thus costing less END, etc., making "naked advantages" clearly superior to the normal advantages setup. Since Hero games has clearly allowed the concept of naked advantages, it should recognize this contradiction, and address it, for instance by saying that one can use a power without its advantages, depending on the sfx, and not have to pay the END for it. But enough of that soapbox

 

I thought that (prior to 5th edition) naked advantages were almost always illegal, unless there was no other way to create the effect you're looking for.

 

The FAQ for 5th says there are still some limitations on it:

 

from the FAQ discussion on naked advantages

Of course, you should have a good reason for buying an Advantage “naked†beyond “I don’t want to use it all the time.†In the case of the character you describe, he’s got a lot of Limitations on the Advantage that don’t apply to the base attack. That’s an interesting and intriguing power construct, one most GMs would allow. There’s lots of neat stuff you can do with naked Power Advantages that’s both cool and non-unbalancing. But if there’s no real distinction between the base power and the naked Advantage, the significant possibility of abuse rears its ugly head, and the GM should forbid the purchase, or at least tread carefully

 

IMHO, the structure tesuji and slaughterj describe crosses the line (although it is a cool idea), since it just looks like a way to save points. It just gives you a lot more options with no limitations, and doesn't jibe with what Steve described in the FAQ. I don't think I can call it illegal, since the rules are pretty nebulous at this point (FRED really just says go ahead and use them), but allowing these kind of naked advantages could lead to some surprisingly powerful characters at just 350 pts.

 

However, if everyone (PCs and villains) can use naked advantages this way, it's not as big a deal. I'd be interested to see the differences in the characters from a campaign run this way.