CSLs and the Speed chart...

[Ulryk]

From my understanding of the rules (and please correct me If I am wrong in this interpretation) combat levels assigned are in effect from your action within a phase until the beginning of your next phase.

 

I.e. If Fred (with a normal DCV of 6) puts 2 8pt CSLs into DCV on 10 dex of phase 4, he will have a DCV of 8 until the beginning of phase 8 (assuming a speed of 3) From the beginning of phase 8 until 10 dex on phase 8 he will have a DCV of 6 at which point he can place those same CSLs back into DCV restoring his elevated DCV of 8.

 

My question is, what if any problems or exploits can the more experienced of you see if a GM were to assume the CSLs stayed in place until the player (Fred in this case) chose to change them from their assignment?

 

I.e. in the above case the rules say from the beginning of phase 8 until dex 10 of phase 8, Fred lost his assigned CSLs and reverted to a DCV of 6. What would be the issues involved with assuming a house rule that the CSLs would remain in place until dex 10 of phase 8 as opposed to being deallocated at the beginning of phase 8?

 

I'm sure this question has cropped up before, but after over an hour of searching the archived messages I couldn't find reference to it, so please excuse the recurring question.

 

I have a second question that I can see problems with on my own but if you find yourself with extra time to help, please consider the same question however, replace the CSLs in question with Manuevers, and expose any possible problems.

 

Thanks!

[Dust Raven]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

This question has, though I'm not too clear on what exactly it is you are asking. One thing that I think is confusing one or both of us is that you seem to be calling Segments Phases. A Turn is divided into twelve Segments, each one second long. A Phase is just another term for "action." A character's Phase will can last several Segments, and typically starts and ends in the middle of a Segment.

 

 

Just to throw out from facts and figues:

 

If you have a SPD of 3 and a DEX of 15, your Phases start, at DEX 15, on Segments 4, 8 and 12. Anything you do that affects your CV stays in effect until the start of your next Phase. Example: If you abort your Segment 4 Phase to Dodge, you gain a +3 to DCV that lasts until DEX 15 on Segment 8, the start of your next Phase. There is no gap between when a bonus or penalty ends and your Phase starts. They happen simultaneously. This applies for any change in CV, including Maneuvers Modifiers and CSLs.

[Ulryk]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

Sorry, your assumption is correct. I meant segment 4 and 8, not phase 4 and 8 in the examples.

 

and by your second paragraph you're saying my example 'house rule' is in fact the actual rule as written? If so, this would completely solve the problem my current group is having.

[JMHammer]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

The official rule regarding held actions is that the held action evaporates at the beginning of the segment of the character's next phase. Powers, skill levels, etc. that were activated/allocated in a phase do not so evaporate.

 

And frankly, there's no need for the "held action goes poof at the beginning of the segment of the character's next phase," either. I understand why Steve slipped it in there, but it's extremely counterintuitive and often gives a marked disadvantage to a character who is "waiting for an opportunity" to act. This rule is easily replaced with, "If a character is holding an action when a segment including his next phase occurs, the character's previous phase is voided and the phase being held is the phase to be triggered in that segment. Because the character is holding his phase, he may take an action at any time in that segment (or subsequent segments), even before his usual Dex order."

 

John H

[Ulryk]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

Thanks for the help guys. I will bring up the point you made on held actions as well JMHammer.

[Dust Raven]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

The official rule regarding held actions is that the held action evaporates at the beginning of the segment of the character's next phase. Powers, skill levels, etc. that were activated/allocated in a phase do not so evaporate.

 

And frankly, there's no need for the "held action goes poof at the beginning of the segment of the character's next phase," either. I understand why Steve slipped it in there, but it's extremely counterintuitive and often gives a marked disadvantage to a character who is "waiting for an opportunity" to act. This rule is easily replaced with, "If a character is holding an action when a segment including his next phase occurs, the character's previous phase is voided and the phase being held is the phase to be triggered in that segment. Because the character is holding his phase, he may take an action at any time in that segment (or subsequent segments), even before his usual Dex order."

 

John H

I think I agree with this.

 

What I do when a character has is holding a Phase it let them hold it indefinately. When another Phase starts while they are holding, I give them the option to stop holding and act normally. They can always choose to keep holding, or change what they are holding for. Should they act in a Segment they have a Phase in before their Phase would start, it counts as the Phase they would have had (meaning their held Phase used the Phase they would have gotten later that Segment). I don't see any problem with this. The alternative is that the character keeps holding his Phase until his next starts, and he loses the held Phase instead. It's not like he's acting sooner than his DEX either; he's actually acted several Segments late (by holdng).

[Nevenall]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

As I read it, the basic rule is, no matter what, you can't have two phases in the same segment.

Holding a half action is a good way for a character to be on alert and ready for anything. Anything they "see" coming anyway.

[Ulryk]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

This very question is in the FAQ. Turns out my research was not as thorough as it could have been.

 

Q: If a character applies a Combat Skill Level to increase his DCV,

do the changes to his DCV last until his next Phase?

 

A: They last until he decides to switch the CSL to something else

definitely until the next Phase, and possibly longer. However, that

doesn't change what they apply to; a 3-point CSL with swords

doesn't improve a character's DCV versus arrows, no matter

how long it lasts.

[JMHammer]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

Nevenall said:

As I read it, the basic rule is, no matter what, you can't have two phases in the same segment.

Holding a half action is a good way for a character to be on alert and ready for anything. Anything they "see" coming anyway.

But if you're holding a half action, the "basic rule" makes it go poof at the beginning of the segment which includes your next phase. The unmodified, official rule will always add that time, however brief it might be if your Dex is very high, when you will not be able to take any actions at all other than aborting. Hence the house rule I use and suggested above which prevents this problem while never allowing more than one full phase in a segment.

 

John H

[Nevenall]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

Good point.

Me not thinking clearly. Me need more coffee.

[Dust Raven]

Re: CSLs and the Speed chart...

 

Nevenall said:

 

But if you're holding a half action, the "basic rule" makes it go poof at the beginning of the segment which includes your next phase. The unmodified, official rule will always add that time, however brief it might be if your Dex is very high, when you will not be able to take any actions at all other than aborting. Hence the house rule I use and suggested above which prevents this problem while never allowing more than one full phase in a segment.

 

John H

Going by the letter of the rules, this is correct. But that's not the way I understand how it works. At least it's not the way I choose to interprate it.

 

Q: On 5E 235, the text under Holding an Action indicates a Held Action is lost at the beginning of the Segment on which the character’s next Phase occurs. Thus, there’s a “null zone†between the start of that Segment and the start of the character’s Phase (which begins on his DEX in that Segment). So, if HeroMan is fighting The Evil Moustache (who has the same SPD and a higher DEX than HeroMan), and he wants to Holds his Action based on what ‘Stache does, how can he do that? He’ll automatically lose his Held Action when the Segment begins, leaving the ‘Stache free to act without consequence.

A: In this situation, the GM should apply some common sense and dramatic sense. If, as you describe, HeroMan wants to Hold his Action based on what The Evil Moustache does, the GM could use the Held Action to, in essence, move HeroMan “up†in the initiative order for the Phase, so that he can “go first†before the ‘Stache only for the purposes of starting another Held Action. If HeroMan’s player starts abusing the privilege, or it causes problems, the GM should stop allowing him to do this.

I typically allow stuff like this normally. I just doesn't make sense to me that a person waiting for something will get jumped by what he's waiting for just because he waits an extra fraction of a second. In such a case, he looses his Phase in that Segment, replacing it with his held one.