Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

[sjmiller]

Hi folks!

It's been close to 13 years since I last played Champions, but I was recently asked to play in a game. So I dug out my books (4th Ed Hero System) and tried making a character. I figured the GM will help me tweak things to 5th Ed Revised once I am done.

 

My problem is I am not sure if I am figuring the Multipower correctly. Plus, to be perfectly honest, I am not sure how to figure the END cost for the powers in the multipower. Since the GM is out of town I am looking to you folks for some help.

 

The multipower concept is that there is an energy force called photoplasmic energy. It can be found just about anywhere, and is part of what most people would call the life force of living beings. The character, named Photon, can tap into this power and channel it in various forms. Because of a personal belief, he can only use this power when he is in his hero ID.

 

So, here's the multipower. Let me know if I am figuring this right. Oh, the Photoplasmic Drain was created at the GMs suggestion to possibly deal with a munchkin player we have.

 

Real	Active	
Pts	Pts	Power
45	56	Multipower (Photoplasmic Powers, Only in Hero ID [-1/4],
               56 point Reserve)
7	9	Photon Ball (5d6 Energy Blast, NND - Force Field Exception
               [+1], at 1/2 END cost [+1/4])
7	9	Plasma Beam (9d6 Energy Blast at 1/2 END cost[+1/4])
7	9	Flight (28", x2 END [-1/2], Special Effect [Doppler-shifted 
               trail])
7	9	Photoplasmic Drain (12d6 Drain on BODY, NND - Flash
               Defense Exception [+1], Activation 11- [-1], Once per
               day [-2], Ranged [+1/2], Hourly recover [+3/4], Linked
               to Photonic Flash [-1/2])
7	9	Photonic Flash (4d6 Flash at 1/2 END cost [+1/4])

 

So, what I am wondering is, did I figure this correctly? What would be the END cost of the powers? Is there a better way to do this?

 

Thanks for your help folks, I appreciate it!

 

Stephen Miller

Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

[Jhamin]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Pretty good. Here is what I got when I ran your powers through Herodesigner.

 

 

Cost**	Power	END
45**	Photoplasmic Powers: Multipower, 56-point reserve, all slots OIHID (-1/4)*
4u**	1) Photon Ball: EB 5d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), NND (Force Fields; +1); OIHID (-1/4)*	2
4u**	2) Plasma Beam: EB 9d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4); OIHID (-1/4)*	2
3u**	3) Flight 28"; Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), OIHID (-1/4)*	12
4u**	4) Hearing Group Flash 15d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4); OIHID (-1/4)*	2

Powers Cost: 60

 

 

Just a couple comments:

1) Flash is now cheaper but doesn't last as long under 5th edition, so that is why you have so many dice in this version compared to your old one.

2) You can't link two powers inside a power framework. If you wanted to add the drain to the flash, one of them has to be bought outside the framework. Or, if you wanted, you could buy them both inside the framework and just fire them both as a multipower attack. Of course if you want to use more than one slot at a time, you either have to buy variable slots and use them all at lowered power, or you have to buy a much bigger power reserve to power multiple slots at once.

3) I'm not sure why you bought the Drain as a NND vs. Flash defence. Drains are normally only resisted by power defence, so are pretty hard to resist by default. If FlashD helps against this power, that would actually probably be a limit.

4) The drain in general is not written up correctly. You are limited to only buying powers whose *active* cost is less than the multipower reserve. As written, your drain is a 390 active points. It will also kill most characters outright.

I'd take this up again when you have the rulebook back in front of you.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

What Jhamin didn't mention was that the Drain has too high an "Active Cost" to fit inside the multipower. It can't have an "Active Cost" higher than the actual MP pool before limitations are applied. Otherwise his construction is right on.

 

Welcome back to the fold, by the way. You should consider getting the "Sidekick" book. It'll give you a break down of the new costs and such and will probably help you get up to speed.

[Jhamin]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

What Jhamin didn't mention was that the Drain has too high an "Active Cost" to fit inside the multipower. It can't have an "Active Cost" higher than the actual MP pool before limitations are applied. Otherwise his construction is right on.

 

Welcome back to the fold, by the way. You should consider getting the "Sidekick" book. It'll give you a break down of the new costs and such and will probably help you get up to speed.

 

I think we were both posting at the same time...

[Vanguard00]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

I think we were both posting at the same time...

 

 

Are ya sure you didn't edit? Cuz now I feel foolish

[Jhamin]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Are ya sure you didn't edit? Cuz now I feel foolish

 

Actually I did edit. I posted the export from Herodesigner to make sure it worked, then edited the post to add my comments.

Sorry.

 

But, the points remains:

The multipower is promising, but the drain is whack.

Most of the point costs are high.

sjmiller really need the rules in front of him when he creates the charcter. Lots of little things have changed (like the flash)

The $10 sidekick is probably all a returning 4e player needs to get up to speed.

[sjmiller]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

4) The drain in general is not written up correctly. You are limited to only buying powers whose *active* cost is less than the multipower reserve. As written, your drain is a 390 active points. It will also kill most characters outright.

I'd take this up again when you have the rulebook back in front of you.

Thanks for checking things out for me. This one has me confused though. I don't see how you get the 390 active points on this.

 

(pause while Stephen actually reads the definition of Active Points and realizes he's been doing things wrong all these years. He also discovers he's been calculating power costs incorrectly too)

 

Okay, so, if I remove this from the multipower, since it has too many active points, and I drop the NND since it is not what I thought it was, then the final cost of the power would be 60 points, right? Sure, there are lots of restrictions, and yes, it is meant to bring down an over-powered uber-Munchkin, but is the point total correct? I could probably kick down number of dice to a reasonable level, say 4d6, keep the same modifiers (without the NND) and it should cost 20 points, right?

 

Hmm, makes me wonder what else I have been figuring incorrectly all these years.

 

Stephen Miller

Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

[Vanguard00]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Okay' date=' so, if I remove this from the multipower, since it has too many active points, and I drop the NND since it is not what I thought it was, then the final cost of the power would be 60 points, right? Sure, there are lots of restrictions, and yes, it is meant to bring down an over-powered uber-Munchkin, but is the point total correct? I could probably kick down number of dice to a reasonable level, say 4d6, keep the same modifiers (without the NND) and it should cost 20 points, right?[/quote']

 

 

Nope. Drain costs 10pts per die (I don't remember what it cost in 4th Edition...I didn't think it had changed). A 4d6 Drain would still have an Active Cost of 40 points without any Advantages.

 

The other thing to remember is that putting Advantages on a power increases it's Active Cost. Thus, a 4d6 Drain (40 pts) with an NND (a +1 advantage, effectively double the cost) costs 80pts. Limitations reduce the Real Cost only, not the Active Cost.

[sjmiller]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Nope. Drain costs 10pts per die (I don't remember what it cost in 4th Edition...I didn't think it had changed). A 4d6 Drain would still have an Active Cost of 40 points without any Advantages.

 

The other thing to remember is that putting Advantages on a power increases it's Active Cost. Thus, a 4d6 Drain (40 pts) with an NND (a +1 advantage, effectively double the cost) costs 80pts. Limitations reduce the Real Cost only, not the Active Cost.

You know, you think you understand something and then someone shows you that maybe you don't. So, let's see if this makes sense to anyone but me.

 

Drain of 4d6, just by itself, would cost 40 points (no changed from 4th). If I add in the advantages (Ranged and Hourly recovery [+1.25 Advantages]) that 4d6 Drain would cost 90 points. The active cost would therefore be 90 points.

 

Now, given the limitations I placed on it (Activation 11-, 1 Charge per day, and Linked to the Flash power [-3.5 Limitations]) the Real Cost of the power is 20 points.

 

This is all predicated on the power being outside the multipower framework, as linking would violate the rules.

 

I hate the idea of spending money on a gamebook I will probably not use more than once or twice a year, but it looks like I need to.

 

Stephen Miller

Ancient Gamer and Curmudgeon

[Jhamin]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

This looks right.

 

If you are only going to use Hero once or twice a year, and are familiar with 4th editon, I'd actually skip the $50 Fifth Revised edition.

Last year they put out the $10 Hero Sidekick. It is a sort of "quickstart" version o hero that fits into 128 pages and includes about 90% of the system but leaves out alot of the more esotaric modifiers and adders.

 

It will get you up to speed on the current rules set, but not bury you in detail. And if you have bought a RPG in the last 10 years you know a full book for $10 isn't too shabby.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Drain of 4d6' date=' just by itself, would cost 40 points (no changed from 4th). If I add in the advantages (Ranged and Hourly recovery [+1.25 Advantages']) that 4d6 Drain would cost 90 points. The active cost would therefore be 90 points.

 

 

Actually, it'd be 100 pts. Ranged is a +1/2 advantage, and delaying the return rate to one hour is a +1 advantage for a total of +1.5.

 

Now, given the limitations I placed on it (Activation 11-, 1 Charge per day, and Linked to the Flash power [-3.5 Limitations]) the Real Cost of the power is 20 points.

 

Well, it's actually 22 pts because of the advantages above, but yes, you've figured out the math correctly (i.e. if the Active Cost had been 90pts then the Real Cost with these limitations would have been 20pts).

 

This is all predicated on the power being outside the multipower framework, as linking would violate the rules.

 

Indeedly.

 

I hate the idea of spending money on a gamebook I will probably not use more than once or twice a year, but it looks like I need to.

 

Oh, come on! You know you wanna! Everyone's doin' it, man! Join the dark side! It'll be a hoot!

 

Or you could get Hero Designer 2.0 (available in the online store) and it could figure all of this out for you.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

I'm not sure what you think the problem is. Don't forget the it's the Active Points in the Power which count for whether or not it can fit inside the Multipower, not the Real Cost. I think you've got that, though.

 

The slot cost is found by taking the Real Cost of the slot and dividing by 10 if it's a Fixed or Ultra slot or by 5 if it's a Multi or Flexible slot.

 

You've also forgotten to give each of the slots the Limitation 'Only In Heroic ID'.

[sjmiller]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Oh, come on! You know you wanna! Everyone's doin' it, man! Join the dark side! It'll be a hoot!

 

Or you could get Hero Designer 2.0 (available in the online store) and it could figure all of this out for you.

I think I will end up buying Sidekick, as the $10 cost is not bad for an occasional game. If I were playing more often I would not hesitate to buy the full book, but not for such infrequent playing.

 

I checked on Hero Designer. I think I will pass on that for the same reason I am not getting the Hero System book. Too high of a cost for a casual game. Still, it's nice to see a game with a complex character creation system being supported this way. I know a number of folks who shy away from Hero System games because of the complex creation process.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Well, whichever way you end up going (and Sidekick ain't a bad way to start), you know where the boards are if you ever need help.

[sjmiller]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Well' date=' whichever way you end up going (and Sidekick ain't a bad way to start), you know where the boards are if you ever need help.[/quote']

Believe me, I appreciate all the help! I just wish I had this kind of assistance back when I was first playing Champions in the early 1980s. Sure would have saved me years of confusion.

[Agent X]

Re: Returning player needs Multipower Assistance

 

Well' date=' whichever way you end up going (and Sidekick ain't a bad way to start), you know where the boards are if you ever need help.[/quote'] Yep, heck, if you describe what you want and how many points to play with that you have AND ask for it, you could probably expect 3 or 4 posters to give you examples of how they would build your multipower.