OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

I was wondering.

 

My GAC book has a couple of 'OIF, Bulky' power armour characters, and I was wondering how balanced people think that is.

 

I mean, a giant Robot of some description should definately have a DCV penalty, even if there's someone smaller inside.

 

Thoughts?

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

How about changing that 'Bulky' to 'Clumsy' to define the limited fine motor control and the lack of touch sesnsors over the entire surface of the giant robot.

 

Oh I'm sorry, was that your poodle?

 

Bulky means you are at half DCV when using it anyway, so that could work, or you could buy the lower DVC through a disadvantage (physical disadvantage like FRED 218 suggests for large characters but 'not all the time'). Whatever works for you.

[Guest Keneton]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Im not sure what your question is.

The DCV and the fact that the power is in a focus are unrelated DESPITE teh correct interpretaion that it is large and bulky.

 

Conceptionally the Character should have negative DCV per the physical limitation size as defined in the Hero System Bestiary and reiterated in Fantasy Hero.

 

The fact that its a focus is irrelevent. Even if OHID or without the focus limitation, the DCV would either be defined by negative skill levels bought with the focus lim or via the physical limitation on disads.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Not irrelevant...a bulky focus halves your DCV when you are carrying it - and you'd be carrying the giant robot all the time you pilot it, in effect.

 

The size issue is a seperate one, but you'd have to be careful. Say you are 4" (8m) tall and weigh 800kg you are -4 to DCV. If you take the robot suit as bulky, your DCV is halved. Assuming that you take both, the penalty for being that size is effectively reduced. (Say you are DCV 7 with a 21 DEX -4 DCV would put you at DCV3, half DCV would put you at DCV4, but combine both and you are at DCV2 (7-4)/2. Bargain for all the points you are getting.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

I'll be honest, at the size where you start racking up DCV penalties, I'd just buy it as a vehicle and be done with it.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Well, the concept in question isn't that large. (3-4m)

 

It's just gigantic compared to the character (who is permanently tiny).

 

It's also a fairly primitive design, thus straddling the line between Giant Robot and Power Armour.

 

Anyway. Wouldn't the Bulky DCV penalty be another way of doing the size penalty? (it would negate her DCV bonus from size and then some).

[Guest Keneton]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Not irrelevant...a bulky focus halves your DCV when you are carrying it - and you'd be carrying the giant robot all the time you pilot it, in effect.

 

The size issue is a seperate one, but you'd have to be careful. Say you are 4" (8m) tall and weigh 800kg you are -4 to DCV. If you take the robot suit as bulky, your DCV is halved. Assuming that you take both, the penalty for being that size is effectively reduced. (Say you are DCV 7 with a 21 DEX -4 DCV would put you at DCV3, half DCV would put you at DCV4, but combine both and you are at DCV2 (7-4)/2. Bargain for all the points you are getting.)

 

You misunderstand me. What I said was Just because something is large does not mean that it takes a negative DCV. The focus limitation is NOT realted to the penalty. If built with OIHID it would still be BIG|! Therefore taking focus does not make it bulky. It is the special effect of the power (large robot) that is realted to the penalty. I would not allow bulky as than the robot always sweeps or braces (after all you are always at half!). I would prefer the phys lim.

 

Your solution does work although and is novel in that an inaccesable focus in "carried" by the special effect (piloting, driving). If you choose to do bulky, I agree with TRL that you do not do both. As for the idea of a vehicle, I thinks that soulution leads to too much complication and open the chracter up to Indirect attacks.

 

Good Luck Whamme.

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Sounds like a good idea to me. You get all these spiffy abilities by walking around in a giant can, but it slows you down a bit making you an easy target. Sounds like primitive power armor to me.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Thanks all. I am now happy with doing Kitten's amour this way.

(Concept: Looks like a kitten (genetically human, albeit a mutant). Talks like a kid (is only 5, but accelerate maturity). Walks around in a huge suit of power armour.)

[Constantine]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Calling something a bulky focus that is actually power armor doesn't really work for me, though I really don't have a better suggestion. I'm just having a hard time with it. Are you just trying to simulate the dcv change when the character gets bigger? Just buy growth, through a focus. Or, better yet, it sounds more like a vehicle to me. If its just a focus, wouldn't you have to also buy shapeshift? If the character looks like a cat normally, and you buy a robot with a humanoid form, doesn't that take away from the DF (which I assume you bought?)

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Calling something a bulky focus that is actually power armor doesn't really work for me' date=' though I really don't have a better suggestion. I'm just having a hard time with it. Are you just trying to simulate the dcv change when the character gets bigger? Just buy growth, through a focus. [/quote']

 

But using Growth to end up human sized doesn't sound right... plus, I don't want _any_ of the extras. (It's primitive, so the extra STR can be used only if it doesn't move, it's just armour, so no extra STUN/BODY, and it doesn't have increased reach)

 

Or, better yet, it sounds more like a vehicle to me.

 

But it's power armour. And it's not that big!

 

If its just a focus, wouldn't you have to also buy shapeshift? If the character looks like a cat normally, and you buy a robot with a humanoid form, doesn't that take away from the DF (which I assume you bought?)

 

Er no, no DF. Kitten has a Social Lim... but looking like a cat isn't terribly distinctive; the world has a lot of cats. And Kitten could be ANY black cat to the untrained eye. There's a DF for the suit, because it's huge and mechanical. (Easily concealed; by hopping out).

[Dust Raven]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

...wouldn't you have to also buy shapeshift? If the character looks like a cat normally' date=' and you buy a robot with a humanoid form, doesn't that take away from the DF (which I assume you bought?)[/quote']

Regardless of how this is done, it would likely fall under the SFX rules for appearance changing. You turn on [all your Powers bought through the focus] and you look like a giant robot. You turn them off, you don't anymore. In any case, people are likely to know it's you.

[Constantine]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Regardless of how this is done' date=' it would likely fall under the SFX rules for appearance changing. You turn on [all your Powers bought through the focus'] and you look like a giant robot. You turn them off, you don't anymore. In any case, people are likely to know it's you.

 

If it were my campaign, and I had a PC who looked like a cat, and he wanted a focus/vehicle/whatever that made him bigger and he looked vaguely humanoid, I'd make him buy something to represent that change. Its too great a change. Whamme himself has said that its not that big, I guessing around human size. This might allow him, in certain situation to pass as human. Hence, shapeshift.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

If it were my campaign' date=' and I had a PC who looked like a cat, and he wanted a focus/vehicle/whatever that made him bigger and he looked vaguely humanoid, I'd make him buy something to represent that change. Its too great a change. Whamme himself has said that its not that big, I guessing around human size. This might allow him, in certain situation to pass as human. Hence, shapeshift.[/quote']

 

I'd say it depends on how it is used. Potentially looking like a cat is a quite useful ability, even if it is how you always look - the villains guarding the warehouse are not likely to be bothered with a small black cat prowling around even if they do spot it.

 

It isn't the change to humanoid shape in armour that would worry me so much as the 'free' looking like a cat power, especially if the cat had some superpowers of its own without the armour (can anyone say 'surprise attack'?)

 

Moreover I wouldn't do this with DF (or not just with DF) - why should you get points for a bonus ability?

 

I can see in 'real life' looking like a cat is going to cause all sorts of interesting social problems, but in game reality, it could be a real boon.

 

I'd probably want some sort of expenditure on the cat thing, maybe a heavily discounted shapeshift or multiform (can't assume human form - always looks like a cat).

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

...and having made my 'Mr Grumpy' comments can I also commend whover thought up Kitten for an interesting, perhaps inspired, piece of character creation.

[Constantine]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

I'd say it depends on how it is used. Potentially looking like a cat is a quite useful ability, even if it is how you always look - the villains guarding the warehouse are not likely to be bothered with a small black cat prowling around even if they do spot it.

 

It isn't the change to humanoid shape in armour that would worry me so much as the 'free' looking like a cat power, especially if the cat had some superpowers of its own without the armour (can anyone say 'surprise attack'?)

 

Moreover I wouldn't do this with DF (or not just with DF) - why should you get points for a bonus ability?

 

I can see in 'real life' looking like a cat is going to cause all sorts of interesting social problems, but in game reality, it could be a real boon.

 

I'd probably want some sort of expenditure on the cat thing, maybe a heavily discounted shapeshift or multiform (can't assume human form - always looks like a cat).

 

I don't know, I think you get to choose what your character looks like, set at character creation, pay for any benefits. It seems Kitty has paid for Shrinking. I don't think having your character look like a cat is actually worth points. There would be some situations where it would be odder to see a cat then a person. And you've got the whole 4 legged thing, kind of balances out, I'd say.

[Sean Waters]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

I don't know' date=' I think you get to choose what your character looks like, set at character creation, pay for any benefits. It seems Kitty has paid for Shrinking. I don't think having your character look like a cat is actually worth points. There would be some situations where it would be odder to see a cat then a person. And you've got the whole 4 legged thing, kind of balances out, I'd say.[/quote']

 

Oh I hear you: a cat can't walk into a bar and ask to speak to the manager, and will probably have a hard time interrogating suspects, getting a driver licence, operate an ATM and so on.

 

However, assuming that the character has not paid points for any of those skills/perks etc and has no intention of playing the character that way as there is already a PRE-heavy in the group that isn't much of a problem. the practical everyday problems of being a cat probably are not going to spend a lot of time centre stage in the average game, but walking around in plain sight unnoticed: I say that will be useful in game.

 

It all comes down to what it is going to be used for, and if the GM does let Kitten sneak up on guards, scout villain hideouts and get saucers of cream for free then the GM should also play up the whole 'being a cat' problem OR make the character pay points.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

If it were my campaign' date=' and I had a PC who looked like a cat, and he wanted a focus/vehicle/whatever that made him bigger and he looked vaguely humanoid, I'd make him buy something to represent that change. Its too great a change. Whamme himself has said that its not that big, I guessing around human size. This might allow him, in certain situation to pass as human. Hence, shapeshift.[/quote']

 

Well, it's obviously still Kitten inside it. It's a very primitive robot thing, and it can't pass for human.

 

And Kitten's writeup is based on a cat writeup. Even though Kitten really is a human being, as she makes a poitn of pointing out.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

Oh I hear you: a cat can't walk into a bar and ask to speak to the manager, and will probably have a hard time interrogating suspects, getting a driver licence, operate an ATM and so on.

 

However, assuming that the character has not paid points for any of those skills/perks etc and has no intention of playing the character that way as there is already a PRE-heavy in the group that isn't much of a problem. the practical everyday problems of being a cat probably are not going to spend a lot of time centre stage in the average game, but walking around in plain sight unnoticed: I say that will be useful in game.

 

It all comes down to what it is going to be used for, and if the GM does let Kitten sneak up on guards, scout villain hideouts and get saucers of cream for free then the GM should also play up the whole 'being a cat' problem OR make the character pay points.

 

Mmm. Well, Kitten has no superpowers (her power is being a kitten with opposable claws, oh, and enough intelligence to make the armour), and is likely to have a lot of problems with being a cat. Plus, not for a standard game... although given what others have said, I should rethink that. Kitten with more powers and proportionate superstrength (say, 5 or 10) would kick ass.

 

"I'm not a cat! I'm a human being. Eek! Dog!" (runs off)

[Bleys]

Re: OIF, Bulky: Giant Robot

 

I think that BULKY power armor (or just armor for that matter) is perfectly fine.

Space marines or guys in platemail, you still get the penalty for the extra points.

It's a fine way to do it.