Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

[David Blue]

How would you build Kid Miracleman (Johnny Bates) and Miracleman (Mike Moran) at the time of their first fight? (I mean when they first fought in the Alan Moore series in Eclipse Comics, after Mike Moran discovered that Johnny Bates had remained Kid Miracleman.)

 

How would you build them at the time of their later fight, when Miraclewoman and others participated?

[Superskrull]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

Are you aiming for specific numbers here or just scaled to suit whoever's tastes apply?

 

Scaling-wise, KM was an easy 15+ Str higher than Miracleman with commensurate increases across the board. He also has heat vision though it seems somewhat suspect as to it's actual power level. He failed to nuke his secretary's head to ash but could hurt MM. Both of these guys had survived the fringes of a nuclear blast prior to this, so I'm thinking it's nowhere near his Str in DCs. He later demonstrates enough speed to kill and dismember much of London's populace in a display of psychotic artistic endeavor in the course of a few hours or so. Sucker is damned hard to put down as well, as the Warpsmith's exo-porting of rubble into his heart and head failed to stop him. This suggests a disturbingly high body.

 

Frankly, I'd find one of the Superman write-ups on the net, file off the non-Miracleman bits and see how she flies. The order of power levels seems to be KM, Miraclewoman and Miracleman trailing last, due to time spent in superhuman form. Miraclewoman seems to have sensory powers such as aura sight and tracking that the others probably failed to develop due to differing personalities.

 

As to pyrohobo, just give him disgusting levels of flame/heat resistance and some burninating powers and call it good. The Warpsmiths seem to have a high spd, neat spacial-temporal powers (including time-travel according to the Warriors special I found years ago) and some lightning reflexes. They don't dodge too well though and their Missile Deflection hasn't got too high an OCV since he failed to block KM's heat vision very well.

[David Blue]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

Are you aiming for specific numbers here or just scaled to suit whoever's tastes apply?

Whatever's possible, really. From Hero Designer to "hand-wave it all". That would be: "scaled to suit whoever's tastes apply".

 

Scaling-wise' date=' KM was an easy 15+ Str higher than Miracleman with commensurate increases across the board. He also has heat vision though it seems somewhat suspect as to it's actual power level. He failed to nuke his secretary's head to ash but could hurt MM. Both of these guys had survived the fringes of a nuclear blast prior to this, so I'm thinking it's nowhere near his Str in DCs. He later demonstrates enough speed to kill and dismember much of London's populace in a display of psychotic artistic endeavor in the course of a few hours or so. Sucker is damned hard to put down as well, as the Warpsmith's exo-porting of rubble into his heart and head failed to stop him. This suggests a disturbingly high body.[/quote']He also took just the top off the nurse's head. I suspect he doesn't usually go for the most damage he can do with that attack. As with London, he's going more for artistic effect.

 

Kid Miracleman has a range of abilities, including that lightning bolt he created (or summoned) in the first fight, and mental powers.

 

Life support, flight and personal force fields seem universal for the Miracles.

 

Movethroughs are very common, high-powered and important. If you hand-wave them, you might as well hand-wave the whole fight(s) and the characters too.

 

Yet the damage is high. I'm thinking of that multi-mach-speed power dive vertical from the clouds to crater in hard ground, with strength seemingly adding to damage. (In the first fight, after the lightning bolt.)

 

Kid Miracleman and Miracleman got up and continued fighting, so they're tough.

 

Frankly' date=' I'd find one of the Superman write-ups on the net, file off the non-Miracleman bits and see how she flies.[/quote']Thanks, good idea.

 

I still have my DC Heroes stuff, or a lot of it, and I found a conversion page:

http://www.mactyre.net/scm/articles/Dcconv.html

I'll put off doing the actual numbers till Hero Designer arrives, and if/when I get it running.

 

The order of power levels seems to be KM' date=' Miraclewoman and Miracleman trailing last, due to time spent in superhuman form. Miraclewoman seems to have sensory powers such as aura sight and tracking that the others probably failed to develop due to differing personalities.[/quote']That seems right too.

 

As to pyrohobo' date=' just give him disgusting levels of flame/heat resistance and some burninating powers and call it good.[/quote']He's the easiest one for sure.

 

The Warpsmiths seem to have a high spd' date=' neat spacial-temporal powers (including time-travel according to the Warriors special I found years ago) and some lightning reflexes. They don't dodge too well though and their Missile Deflection hasn't got too high an OCV since he failed to block KM's heat vision very well.[/quote']Maybe Kid Miracleman has a high OCV? Though Miraclewoman was defined as being much more skilful.

 

The Warpsmiths aren't pale shadows of Silver Age Superman, they're something else that would be built from scratch.

 

I'm not concerned about Big Ben or Miracledog. (Though the STUN lotto on the latter's HKAs could get stunning.) Get the big fights with the big characters right, and the rest would follow.

 

I'm also leaving the body-swapping aliens out of scope. Let's just cover the main characters on the main occasions they tested themselves against each other.

[hooligan x]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

Man, I loved that comic, and not just because I bought it for a buck whan it came out then sold it in ebay years later for $75.

[lemming]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

Hey, how did you know I just reread the series!?

 

I think the filing off the serial numbers of a Superman would do.

 

The cloud/lightning trick from the first fight that KM used seemed to be a one time power stunt.

 

The mental powers were pretty low key and seemed to work only on normals. And also seemed to be more mood related, short term.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

The Warpsmiths have a NND KA. I'm not sure what the defense against it is. It might be straight armor or damage resistance. It seems to be a NND that only works against force fields such as the Miracleman family has.

[David Blue]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

My new #1 house rule is "only play a character you would buy a comic book about." I took it from Supreme, The Ivory Icon. Thank you Supreme.

 

Start with something tremendously exciting, and then add the Hero System game mechanics.

 

Man' date=' I loved that comic, and not just because I bought it for a buck whan it came out then sold it in ebay years later for $75.[/quote']I feel the same. (Minus the thrill of cashing in.)

 

It would be the most natural thing in the world if when you told a prospective player: "Tell me about a character you gladly paid money to read about. Focus in what made that character cool." They answered "Miracleman!" and started raving about those fights.

 

But I blanked on: how would you do that in Hero system game mechanics? Hence this thread. Fight A, simulate those events and abilities, fight B, simulate those events and abilities, get an idea what experience would be in between.

[OddHat]

Re: Kid Miracleman vs. Miracleman

 

I loved the first Miracleman/Marvelman story arc as well. Started following it in Warrior magazine. Never liked what Gainman(?) did with the worl once Moore left, but then I tried re-reading the originals recently and didn't enjoy them nearly as much.

 

The MM family are built on Multiform, and damage does not carry over from body to body. I'd use both Armor and a FF to represent the MM family FF; it never seems to go completely away. Best bet is probably an EC with Flight, FF, and Density Increase or STR w/ no Figured Characteristics. Add in huge base STR, CON, and BOD, armor or Damage Resistance (for the portion of the FF that never shuts off), Life Support, Bump of Direction (he never got lost when flying around), Damage Reduction, Mental Defense, high but human COM, PRE and INT, highish DEX and SPD, Regeneration, and special powers for each character. Incantations on the Multiform. Johnny probably had a VPP as well, for the Lightning trick, the Mind Control, an for boosting his other powers.

 

I think the Warp Smith's NND Killing Attack is probably vs Teleportation or Desolidification powers.