Shrinking

[Viper3220]

A friend and I are about to start a high powered fantasy campaign.... They're based off of 515 points.... they can have a certain amount of magic items... we can have a max of 6 combat skill levels, 25 max in all stats, magic items are 30 AP and 2 items are 70AP. Now, he has a magic item which gives him +10 dex, and one of his shortswords gives him 2 levels of shrinking with reduced endurance. Now by taking that he gets +4 DCV minus 4 perception to others rolls, but he gets +6 knockback... so let's look at this.... he is normal size.... his weapons do base 1 1/2 d6 so his max is 3d6+1, so he is regular size doing 3d6+1 now... so when he shrinks he does the same damage somehow, is at +4 DCV, has the same movement and can still hold his swortswords, which are now bigger than him. I said how this doesn't make sense to me and that he shouldn't do that much damage while he has shrinking activated or even be able to hold his swords anymore shrinking or not. He disagrees. Would any of you let your players have something like this?

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Shrinking

 

That is because there is no limit made on shrinking as pertaining to the use of physical strength. If you want to add that limitation in feel free to do so, it is just that you are going to be applying more real world physics to the game.

 

IMX real world and make believe are mutually exclusive.

 

Hawksmoor

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Shrinking

 

A friend and I are about to start a high powered fantasy campaign.... They're based off of 515 points.... they can have a certain amount of magic items... we can have a max of 6 combat skill levels' date=' 25 max in all stats, magic items are 30 AP and 2 items are 70AP. Now, he has a magic item which gives him +10 dex, and one of his shortswords gives him 2 levels of shrinking with reduced endurance. Now by taking that he gets +4 DCV minus 4 perception to others rolls, but he gets +6 knockback... so let's look at this.... he is normal size.... his weapons do base 1 1/2 d6 so his max is 3d6+1, so he is regular size doing 3d6+1 now... so when he shrinks he does the same damage somehow, is at +4 DCV, has the same movement and can still hold his swortswords, which are now bigger than him. I said how this doesn't make sense to me and that he shouldn't do that much damage while he has shrinking activated or even be able to hold his swords anymore shrinking or not. He disagrees. Would any of you let your players have something like this?[/quote']

 

He is correct... sort of. The official set of rules for Shrinking only detail a.) Its advantages and b.) Extra Knocback. There's nothing to say he can't do this. All of his items shrink with him, however; you might halve the weapon's DCs every time your player (and his items) halves his size. Makes sense, since a smaller sword is really more like a dagger.

 

See page 219 of FREd for guidelines on further restricting Shrinking, and for altering abilities such as Strength, movement, etc. when a character uses Shrinking to make it more realistic. He'll get a character point rebate for it, though.

[instag8or19]

Re: Shrinking

 

Viper and I are co-GMing this campaign, we will take turns every other session...anyway...we usually game every couple of weeks when our other player can make it...so as I was bored, I asked Viper to do a campaign with me...He said yes, and then I said we should agree on the rules and maximums.

 

Base 50

Disads 75

Experience 390

 

Base Max 25 for stats

 

Only 6 CSLs or Overall Levels Max

 

We each get 7 Magic items free...cuz experienced players would have aquired such items, 1 Necklace, 2 Rings, 1 Suit of Armor, 1 Pair of Boots, 2 Weapons, Max of 30 AP for the Necklace/Rings/Boots...and Max of 70AP for Weapons...the armor we gave some exceptions...was a Max of 30 AP but we allowed for over that.

 

Powers off limit are Absorbtion, Damage Red, Damage Resist, Desolidify, and Transform

 

First of all, we agree on these rules together. second of all, after seeing my character, Viper decided to make a new character...Very close to what mine was....Lastly...after having looked at my character he "added" a new CV cap that disallowed my shrinking...however when I first described this power my swords shrunk as well...but Viper wanted my swords to do less damage because of that...so...I told him that if he cant fathom a 10 inch character holding swords larger than himself....the shortswords have tiny insets for when he is shrunk...

 

Ill post our characters...sometime later

[instag8or19]

Re: Shrinking

 

Here is my Character Camp

 

Camp

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

25 STR 15 18- Lift 12.8tons; 9d6 HTH damage [4]

25 DEX 45 16- OCV: 12/DCV: 12

25 CON 30 14-

25 BODY 30 14-

25 INT 15 14- PER Roll 14-

25 EGO 30 17- ECV: 13

10 PRE 0 11- PRE Attack: 2d6

10 COM 0 11-

13 PD 8 Total: 32 PD (15 rPD)

13 ED 8 Total: 32 ED (15 rED)

6 SPD 15 Phases: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12

15 REC 10

40 END -5

60 STUN 9 Total Characteristics Cost: 210

Movement: Running: 16"/[Noncombat]"

Leaping: 19"/[Noncombat]"

Swimming: 22"/[Noncombat]"

 

Cost Powers END

30 Find Weakness 11- with All Attacks 0

10 Missile Deflection (Arrows, Slings, Etc.) 0

16 Hardened (x2; +1/2) for up to 17 Active Points of PD, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (16 Active Points) 0

16 Hardened (x2; +1/2) for up to 17 Active Points of ED, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (16 Active Points) 0

5 Nightvision 0

 

Martial Arts: [Martial Art Name]

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

4 Counterstrike +2 +2 Weapon +2 DC Strike, Must Follow Block

3 Trip +2 +2 Weapon +1 DC, Target Falls

4 Disarming Strike +2 +2 Disarm; 55 STR to Disarm

5 Flying Dodge -- +4 Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove

4 Martial Block +2 +2 Block, Abort

4 Reversal -1 -2 60 STR to Escape; Grab Two Limbs

2 Weapon Element: Blades, Off Hand

 

Talents

6 Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)

37 Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, in combat, Discriminatory, Function as a Sense, Targeting Sense) 14-

3 Lightsleep

5 Magesight

2 Trackless Stride

20 Universal Translator 14-

 

Skills

3 Acrobatics 16-

0 Acting 8-

3 Breakfall 16-

3 Climbing 16-

3 Concealment 14-

3 Contortionist 16-

0 Conversation 8-

3 Cryptography 14-

3 Deduction 14-

3 Disguise 14-

3 Fast Draw 16-

1 KS: Dimensions 8-

0 Language (completely fluent; literate) (4 Active Points)

3 Lockpicking 16-

3 Navigation (Dimensional, Land) 14-

0 Paramedics 8-

0 Persuasion 8-

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

3 Shadowing 14-

60 +6 Overall

3 Sleight Of Hand 16-

3 Stealth 16-

2 Survival (Mountain) 14-

3 Tracking 14-

3 Trading 11-

0 TF: Custom Adder, Equines

10 Two-Weapon Fighting (HTH)

3 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Off Hand

 

Total Powers & Skills Cost: 305

Total Cost: 515

 

50+ Disadvantages

15 Distinctive Features: Assassin's Mark (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

20 Hunted: Assassin's Guild 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)

15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident (Very Common, Moderate)

15 Psychological Limitation: Vengeful (Common, Strong)

10 Reputation: Once a member of the Assassin's Guild, 8- (Extreme)

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 75

[instag8or19]

Re: Shrinking

 

And here is Viper's Character...

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

25 STR 15 14- Lift 800.0kg; 5d6 HTH damage [5]

25 DEX 45 16- OCV: 12/DCV: 12

25 CON 30 14-

25 BODY 30 14-

23 INT 13 14- PER Roll 14-

23 EGO 26 14- ECV: 8

25 PRE 15 14- PRE Attack: 5d6

10 COM 0 11-

13 PD 8 Total: 28 PD (15 rPD)

13 ED 8 Total: 28 ED (15 rED)

6 SPD 15 Phases: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12

10 REC 0

50 END 0

54 STUN 3 Total Characteristics Cost: 225

Movement: Running: 12"/[Noncombat]"

Leaping: 10"/[Noncombat]"

Swimming: 2"/[Noncombat]"

 

Cost Powers END

6 +4 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group 0

6 +4 versus Range Modifier for Sight Group 0

5 Nightvision 0

10 Mental Defense (15 points total) 0

10 Missile Deflection (Arrows, Slings, Etc.) 0

11 Darkness: Darkness to Sight Group 1" radius, Usable As Attack (+1) (20 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), 3 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/4) [3 cc]

5 Life Support (Longevity: Immortal) 0

 

Martial Arts: [Martial Art Name]

Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

5 Accurate Strike +3 +1 Strike

5 Flying Dodge -- +4 Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove

3 Legsweep +2 -1 Weapon +1 DC Strike, Target Falls

4 Martial Escape +0 +0 40 STR vs. Grabs

4 Martial Flash -1 -1 Flash 4d6

5 Offensive Block +3 +1 Block, Abort

4 Martial Disarm -1 +1 Disarm; 35 STR to Disarm roll

5 Passing Strike +1 +0 Weapon +v/5; FMove

5 Passing Throw +0 +0 Weapon +v/5; Target Falls; FMove

1 Weapon Element: Blades

 

Talents

5 Rapid Healing

15 Combat Sense 14-

22 Danger Sense (self only, out of combat, Function as a Sense) 14-

6 Combat Luck (3 PD/3 ED)

3 Lightsleep

 

Skills

60 +6 Overall Skill Levels

3 Acrobatics 16-

3 Analyze: Combat 14-

3 Breakfall 16-

3 Climbing 16-

3 Concealment 14-

3 Contortionist 16-

3 Deduction 14-

0 Language (completely fluent; literate) (4 Active Points)

1 Language (completely fluent) (3 Active Points); Gestures, Requires Gestures throughout (Complex; -1)

10 Defense Maneuver I-IV

3 Fast Draw 16-

3 Knowledge Monsters 14-

2 Navigation (Land) 14-

9 Penalty Skill Levels: +6 vs. Multiple Blocks with a single attack

9 Penalty Skill Levels: +6 vs. Sweep with a single attack

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

3 Shadowing 14-

3 Stealth 16-

3 Tracking 14-

10 Two-Weapon Fighting (HTH)

3 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Off Hand

 

Total Powers & Skills Cost: 290

Total Cost: 515

 

50+ Disadvantages

20 Enraged Giants: (Common), go 14-, recover 14-

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 20

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Shrinking

 

He is correct... sort of. The official set of rules for Shrinking only detail a.) Its advantages and b.) Extra Knocback. There's nothing to say he can't do this. All of his items shrink with him' date=' however; you might halve the weapon's DCs every time your player (and his items) halves his size. Makes sense, since a smaller sword is really more like a dagger. [/quote']

 

I would reduce the DC's to a weapon of comparable size, and base this wholly on the fact that the "real weapon" limitation results in smaller size = smaller damage.

[Fox1]

Re: Shrinking

 

Would any of you let your players have something like this?

 

I wouldn't.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Shrinking

 

I would reduce the DC's to a weapon of comparable size' date=' and base this wholly on the fact that the "real weapon" limitation results in smaller size = smaller damage.[/quote']

 

 

Good call. And like I said, there are a wealth of options for GMs who wish to make this power more physically realistic. As it is written, sans options, the power functions more like a sort of magial Shrinking where the character both is smaller, and then again isn't. If you know what I mean. You know, they look smaller, and are harder to hit, but they still function almost as if they are full size... yeah.

 

The problem with Shrinking is that it can't arbitrarily affect every other Power or Characteristic we associate with size (Strength, Body, Mass, etcetera). It's just an extremely complicated change. Therefore, they only give you the advantageous effects, since all Powers basically are advantageous. You have to add disadvantageous aspects on your own. If you see what I mean.

[Onyxclaw]

Re: Shrinking

 

umm... *stabs herself due to the lack of character in the stats*

 

anyway, limit shrinking as you like, but I think it makes snese for him to

a) shrink his sword

or

not be able to pick it up/swing it.

 

In a super hero campaign ok, I can see this...but even then...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Shrinking

 

Normally items that a character holds shrinks with him (5ER p. 219). However, you are right that there is no provision in the system for either the character or his/her items diminishing in effectiveness. I would suggest coming up with a list of ways you think the character should be hindered when using it and forming a Side Effects Limitation based on this. Simply require that the item's Shrinking Power take this Limitation.