OCV Penalty on Powers

[ghost-angel]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Well, those 2pts/+1 are for a single attack only, which is great and cheap if you only ever use one attack. But I don't know any characters that use one attack exclusively.

[The Souljourner]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

The costing does seem wrong' date=' but I don't think that changing the cost is the answer[/quote']

 

 

What?

 

GA - more than a couple main attack powers is fairly unusual in my experience. and at 6 points per power for +3 OCV... it would almost be foolish not to take them.

 

-Nate

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

GA - more than a couple main attack powers is fairly unusual in my experience. and at 6 points per power for +3 OCV... it would almost be foolish not to take them.

 

The more you believe "Points means balance", the more problems you're going to have with HERO.

[ghost-angel]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

 

What?

 

GA - more than a couple main attack powers is fairly unusual in my experience. and at 6 points per power for +3 OCV... it would almost be foolish not to take them.

 

-Nate

 

for the sake of discussion you have Att 1: long sword, Att 2: dagger, Att 3: short sword.

 

+3/attack for 6pts ea. x3 types of attacks = 18pts. The levels can be used for OCV only.

 

+2/all combat = 20pts. Levels can be used anywhere.

(for the extra 2 pts, I'll never take the 2pt CSLs given the added utility.)

 

+3/grp of attacks = 9pts. now it costs half as much, all your weapons get a +3 OCV, they can be used in HtH DCV situtations and you can divide that out to +xOCV/+yDCV where x+y=3.

 

tell me again why I would ever buy a 2pt CSL if I had more than 1 attack ability?

 

even at 2 attacks - sword and dagger

 

+3/attack for 6pts ea x2 = 12 pts. OCV Only.

 

+1 Overall = 10pts - save 2 pts, let's use THAT to buy an OCV CSL on the sword, so now:

+1 Overall and +1 CSL:Sword - 12 pts. my OCV isn't as high but I can add a DCV level if I need it.

 

+3/grp of attacks = all your weapons get a +3 OCV, they can be used in HtH DCV situtations and you can divide that out to +xOCV/+yDCV where x+y=3. heck if you spend all 12pts in CSLs:

 

+4/grp of attacks = all your weapons get a +4 OCV, they can be used in HtH DCV situtations and you can divide that out to +xOCV/+yDCV where x+y=4.

 

again .. if I have more than 1 attack why am I buying a 2pt CSL? Doesn't seem to provide much utility for a meager 2pts. Seems priced right to me - I get only a +1OCV for a single attack, there's little utility in that when you buy higher CSLs someone can easily counter your OCV bonus one phase and then perform at your OCV Level the next.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

....although as soon as you buy them you change the limitation on the power. Becomes very complicated.

 

I was not suggesting my method was the right way to calculate a limtiation: relative lims never work well, but it is interesting to note the substantial effect on, well, effectiveness that even a few points of penalty has on a bell curve. As Souljourner points out (and there may be an element of cross thread humour here, so don't everyone go off on one) maybe we sould use a d20 roll

Oh. I'm sorry. I thought we were discussing Real Point Adders (AKA Negative SKill Levels on self or whatever) at this point.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

Yeah... it seems to me that skill levels are way too cheap. I mean' date=' +3 with for 6 points? That's a huge boost in effectiveness for just over the cost of 1DC. And given the fact that you can turn 2 skill levels into +1DC (IIRC) why are we buying DCs at all? I'd make skill levels something like 5/7/9. Yes, that means an overall level costs the same as +3 dex, which would give you the same effect.... except that dex affects other skills, and skill levels can be used for a variety of effects.[/quote']

6 points gives you +3 for OCV only. You cannot use 2-point CSLs for damage (or DCV). BTW, remember that Dex affects OCV and DCV simultaneously, so for your 9 points you can get the equivalent of two CSLs (plus bonuses to Characteristic and Agility Skill rolls).

 

One reason we still buy DCs when you can apply some CSLs to damage is that damage added by CSLs, like those added by Str, are subject to the Doubling Rule. So for example you could have a 1d6 HKA which with both Str and CSLs cannot do more than 2d6 (except if you add damage that is not subject to the Doubling Rule, such as Extra DCs with a Martial Maneuver and/or Velocity Damage). If you buy another DC directly, Str and CSLs can increase it from its Base 1d6+1 to 2 1/2d6.

[The Souljourner]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

6 points gives you +3 for OCV only. You cannot use 2-point CSLs for damage (or DCV). BTW' date=' remember that Dex affects OCV and DCV simultaneously, so for your 9 points you can get the equivalent of [i']two[/i] CSLs (plus bonuses to Characteristic and Agility Skill rolls).

 

Thanks for clarifying things, Pres. I forgot that the 2 point CSLs can't be used for anything other than OCV. That does make them much less attractive (and thus not as under costed as I thought).

 

And you're right, Dex does OCV, DCV, adds to speed, skills, etc.

 

The 5 point and 8 point skill levels I was pretty much fine with, it was those 2 point ones that I was most worried about... but now that I remember how restricted they are... I think it's probably just fine.

 

I do still think that points need to be carefully weighed to promote balance, because not everyone plays with mature, close friends who follow the spirit of the rules, and the points should be there to encourage balanced characters instead of unbalanced ones. In general, I think it does a pretty good job of that (such as restricting the use of 2 point skill levels to OCV only).

 

-Nate

[Fox1]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

I do still think that points need to be carefully weighed to promote balance' date=' because not everyone plays with mature, close friends who follow the spirit of the rules, and the points should be there to encourage balanced characters instead of unbalanced ones. [/quote']

 

As someone who commonly plays in a group where characters are hundreds of points apart- I can say with confidence that solid character niches and faithfulness to the campaign setting and standards far outweigh any benefit of points in the question of balance.

 

And lack of character niche, disrespect for the setting, and/or lack of campaign standards will quickly wreck any benefit from the point system.

[prestidigitator]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

...not everyone plays with mature' date=' close friends who follow the spirit of the rules....[/quote']

"Give them a boot to the head. Nah nah, nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah!"

 

EDIT: http://www.webguys.com/pdavis/karate/tikwanleep.html

[Duke Bushido]

Re: OCV Penalty on Powers

 

The more you believe "Points means balance"' date=' the more problems you're going to have with HERO.[/quote']

 

Repped.

 

Yes folks; I'm shocked too, but right is right.