Vehicle Review

[Killer Shrike]

I need an assist -- can someone / someones review the numbers on these vehicels?

 

http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/WriteUps/VehicleCheck.html

 

 

Here are the vehicle implementation guidelines for the setting they will be used in.

 

http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyber_Gear_Vehicles.shtml

 

Thanx!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Anyone? Is this thing on?

[Cancer]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Anyone? Is this thing on?

 

It's on, though I have the vague feeling that the population is light and distracted today, possibly a day-before-Thanksgiving thing (though I admit that doesn't work for yesterday, when you posted). (Also, it doesn't explain a possible slack in non-USer traffic.)

 

I'm not much of a Hero System number-cruncher, so while I've glanced at these, I don't have much in the way of concrete comments.

 

That may change after I buy HDv3, when it's out.

[Cancer]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

How many seats, and how much cargo capacity, in those vehicles? The SkyCars in particular seem physically small (2 by 1), like one-seaters, may be two seats tops, and not a lot of carrying capacity, especially for the armed versions. Is there a 4-seat or 6-seat Sky-SUV in the works, for an entire team?

 

Just thinking along the lines of our Shadowrunner team; usually we take a single, largish vehicle, seating all 6 or 7 of us, with a couple of drones flying cover, and enough cargo capacity for the case where half the team comes out carrying a laundry basket of stuff and dumps it in the back and then we make our getaway. Other groups operate in different ways, obviously, but that's the way I'm used to thinking about a quick-hit runner team working.

 

(That assault vehicle is large enough, obviously, but clearly it's a combat vehicle, not something that looks civilian until the runners with guns jump out.)

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

2" is about 13 feet long, a good standard sedan vehicle. Should seat four easily. My car is only about 12 feet long and is decent, for a mid-sized sedan.

 

Did you want a cost check or a size check?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

All around check --

 

For each vehicle any of the following are things that can be validated:

 

* Points should be right since I used HD, but individual Power BUILDS might be flawed

* Any related Computers make sense and have sufficient Skills/Programs to be useful

* Vehicle Makes Sense

* Vehicle Is Cool

 

 

As far as how many passengers is concerned, unforntunately there isnt a statistic for that and it can be somewhat of a fluid concept based upon considerations of whether its a seated only arrangement like a car, or if there is "open deck" involved like in a van.

 

Ill start w/ the easy ones, the aircycles and motorcylces are all obviously designed for one person, though some like the Charley Jamison Rolling Thunder bike could probably seat another in a fashion referred to via a word that Im sure is banned on these boards. At anyrate, one person in normal situations.

 

The Hawk is a fighter, it can fit a pilot and a single passenger. The rest of the space is given over to ammo and extra lift/fuel to bear up under the extra mass of the armor on it.

 

The Dove is the same airframe as the Hawk, sold for domestic use. It is a 4 door sedan and can fit 4 semi-comfortably, or 5 if the people in the back are friendly.

 

The RunnerCar is a sleek spy-car style vehicle; it can fit 2.

 

The Urban Assault Vehicle is a van and can be configured in a lot of ways, but baring any space being given over to cargo, gun racks, and similar things it could either cram a bunch of standing people or have seats of varying degress of comfort with the amount of people possible declining in direct ratio to the comfort level of the seating (swat-style benches up to swivel buckets). And obviously fully geared up Runners, particularly borg'd out ones, take up more space than usual. At any rate a reasonable sized Runner team can easily fit into one.

 

 

As far as the other question, regarding bigger SkyCars, there are more cars coming, but I want to keep the flying cars on the smaller side -- the bigger the vehicle, the more power it takes to keep it aloft and move it around and its a diminishing return arrangement. About the largest practical version would probably be around the size of a small SUV with the current tech. This means that ground transportation (either via wheel or rail) or cargo helicopters are still the way to go for heavy transport.

 

 

I plan to add more vehicles, but this first set will be the jumping off point for a lot of it, so I want to make sure its solid; then I can churn out variations with slightly better this, not as good that, etc etc.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Just thinking along the lines of our Shadowrunner team; usually we take a single, largish vehicle, seating all 6 or 7 of us, with a couple of drones flying cover, and enough cargo capacity for the case where half the team comes out carrying a laundry basket of stuff and dumps it in the back and then we make our getaway. Other groups operate in different ways, obviously, but that's the way I'm used to thinking about a quick-hit runner team working.

 

(That assault vehicle is large enough, obviously, but clearly it's a combat vehicle, not something that looks civilian until the runners with guns jump out.)

Yeah, in the MetaCyber setting there are regions, such as the PacFed area that is the default starting area, that are more anarchic than classic cyberpunk -- there is no real law enforcement. The only real motivation to be discrete is to avoid inevitable reprisals. A Runner Team rolling around in a fully armored & gunned out vehicle is the equivalent of gangbangers rolling around in a lowrider.

 

In other areas this isnt true and stealth would be necessary/advisable.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Been through the Hawk so far, looks good.

 

Only point. How advanced are the onboard systems, the rules state they're non-AI so I'm assuming fairly advanced but still stupid. Given that I would lower the Combat Driving to the base level and up the Area Knowledge, or possibly even leave an "Open Slot" of points for a quick insert of an AK or something similar in case you're travelling outside the preprogrammed area.

 

In fact, you might want to look into adding some kind of "addative AK" capability to facilitate things like that. There's the Factory Setting (the AK is shipped blank and the dealership preloads it prior to selling based on the area the dealership is in) and a single slot for up to one more city, based on the Map Chip put in.

 

Commercial: "Travelling to Portland? Slot the Portland AAA Chip Map and never get lost. check for AAA Maps for your next vacation!"

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Been through the Hawk so far, looks good.

 

Only point. How advanced are the onboard systems, the rules state they're non-AI so I'm assuming fairly advanced but still stupid. Given that I would lower the Combat Driving to the base level

 

The Hawk is intended to be a pretty cutting edge military / paramilitary vehicle. The onboard systems are very advanced; the Combat Piloting is intended to be really good -- the Main Computer should be capable of piloting the craft better than most human pilots. The main purpose of the pilot in the Hawk is to act as a REO -- reconnaisance officer, work the coms, and assign targets to the gunnery computers. They don't even need to know how to fly the craft on their own.

 

 

If you don't like that idea, youre definitely not going to like the Luftjagr's 26- Combat Piloting roll

 

 

and up the Area Knowledge, or possibly even leave an "Open Slot" of points for a quick insert of an AK or something similar in case you're travelling outside the preprogrammed area.

 

In fact, you might want to look into adding some kind of "addative AK" capability to facilitate things like that. There's the Factory Setting (the AK is shipped blank and the dealership preloads it prior to selling based on the area the dealership is in) and a single slot for up to one more city, based on the Map Chip put in.

 

Commercial: "Travelling to Portland? Slot the Portland AAA Chip Map and never get lost. check for AAA Maps for your next vacation!"

 

 

I thought about that and considered giving them Cramming so that they could be quickloaded with 8- AK's for anywhere, but got to thinking about it and it seems like swapping out an AK should be something you could do w/ a Computer Programming skill use. The software on a Computer should be configurable by a skilled programmer, which is something the rules dont take into direct account aside from a note under CP.

 

 

Maybe I should go the heavy handed route and require computers to have a ChipReader like the SkillSofts cybernetic device. Seems like the same technology should be interchangeable -- you could take an AK: whatever Chip and slot it into a borg w/ a ChipReader or a Vehicle with a ChipReader.

 

Make sense?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

The Hawk is intended to be a pretty cutting edge military / paramilitary vehicle. The onboard systems are very advanced; the Combat Piloting is intended to be really good -- the Main Computer should be capable of piloting the craft better than most human pilots. The main purpose of the pilot in the Hawk is to act as a REO -- reconnaisance officer, work the coms, and assign targets to the gunnery computers. They don't even need to know how to fly the craft on their own.

 

 

If you don't like that idea, youre definitely not going to like the Luftjagr's 26- Combat Piloting roll

Nah, just checking to see how advanced the combat computers were. Of course, I did forget I was looking at the military version of the vehicle.

 

I thought about that and considered giving them Cramming so that they could be quickloaded with 8- AK's or anywhere, but got to thinking about it and it seems like swapping out an AK should be something you could do w/ a Computer Programming skill use. The software on a Computer should be configurable by a skilled programmer, which is something the rules dont take into direct account aside from a note under CP.

 

 

Maybe I should go the heavy handed route and require computers to have a CheapReader like the SkillSofts cybernetic device. Seems like the same technology should be interchangeable -- you could take an AK: whatever Chip and slot it into a borg w/ a ChipReader or a Vehicle with a ChipReader.

 

Make sense?

Perfectly, the Reader in a borg is mostly likely derived from Readers in vehicles, I'd make the vehicle one cheaper, or standard, though - seems like less effort would be involved in making a reader for a car than for a person. Perhaps the vehicle reader as a "AK Chips Only" Limitation on it.

 

I'll have to check the others later, gotta run out and find some missing food items for tomorrow.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Looking pretty good with a quick glance through.

They largely suffer the almost universal problem with HERO vechicles in that the attacks tend to outstrip the defences, but thats somewhat expected, and not really a design flaw as much as a deliberate choice in how "mounted" combat will work in your game.

The only thing I spotted that might be a numerical "oops" is on some of the charges for certain weapon systems...

These days, doesn't the maximum advantage for extra charges equall the advantage needed to make the power 0 End cost? It seemed to be costed right for the Autofire weapons (maxing out at +1) but some of the non autofire models look like you paid +3/4 or +1 for charges, when IIRC they should top out at a +1/2

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Nah, just checking to see how advanced the combat computers were. Of course, I did forget I was looking at the military version of the vehicle.

 

 

Perfectly, the Reader in a borg is mostly likely derived from Readers in vehicles, I'd make the vehicle one cheaper, or standard, though - seems like less effort would be involved in making a reader for a car than for a person. Perhaps the vehicle reader as a "AK Chips Only" Limitation on it.

 

I'll have to check the others later, gotta run out and find some missing food items for tomorrow.

Yah, the Computer/Vehicle version would definitely be cheaper both in points (good old divide by 5 -- plus its taken from Resource Points, not character points) and money since the cost for vehicles doesnt have the scaling costs formula worked in.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

ah ping! had a thought and had to run back in and post it before it was lost.

 

I'd keep the Cramming version of the Map Reader, and use it as early versions of the chip reader developed specifically for cars. This being a CP setting you're bound to run into losts of obsolete tech and stuff built from scrapped parts.

 

The PCs may never once buy one, but they might jack a car with an old chip reader and if nothing else it adds some flavor to the setting background.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

ah ping! had a thought and had to run back in and post it before it was lost.

 

I'd keep the Cramming version of the Map Reader, and use it as early versions of the chip reader developed specifically for cars. This being a CP setting you're bound to run into losts of obsolete tech and stuff built from scrapped parts.

 

The PCs may never once buy one, but they might jack a car with an old chip reader and if nothing else it adds some flavor to the setting background.

Or as the old standard "Indonesian copy of a pirated Korean duplicate of a Japaneese device?"

tech in Cyberpunk has always been a "you get what you pay for" kinda deal.

 

Keep a page open on the laptop to Bablefish so you can quickly convert directions it gives into Engrish.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

ah ping! had a thought and had to run back in and post it before it was lost.

 

I'd keep the Cramming version of the Map Reader, and use it as early versions of the chip reader developed specifically for cars. This being a CP setting you're bound to run into losts of obsolete tech and stuff built from scrapped parts.

 

The PCs may never once buy one, but they might jack a car with an old chip reader and if nothing else it adds some flavor to the setting background.

Good thinking. I could also use the Improved Cramming skill Im using for Biofeedback as well for more advanced versions -- ideal for cabs and other mass produced budget oriented vehicles.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Okie, ran through everything else.

 

nothing more to add at the moment, doesn't mean more won't spring to mind, but it all looks costed right and doesn't unbalanced.

 

BTW, I really liked the Best Saftey Features Money Can Buy on the Screaming Mimi. Nice touch. I'm assuming the number of 6s on the Luck is proportional to just how fragged the vehicle is?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Okie, ran through everything else.

 

nothing more to add at the moment, doesn't mean more won't spring to mind, but it all looks costed right and doesn't unbalanced.

 

BTW, I really liked the Best Saftey Features Money Can Buy on the Screaming Mimi. Nice touch. I'm assuming the number of 6s on the Luck is proportional to just how fragged the vehicle is?

Thanx! But no on the proportional -- its just 10d6 Luck. Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you wont. Of course the SFX is not LUCK, rather its a combination of safety features intended to bring the vehicle safely to ground.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

You didn't place any fuel charges on the Runner Car, not sure if that was an oversight or not.

 

I also went and figured out maximum ranges for each vehicle because I'm always curious about these things; Maximum Range was determined by moving at full non-combat velocity for the full run of the charge (full burn until it runs out of fuel).

 

I'm not sure if you did the same calculations or not, but if you didn't here they are. Sometimes knowing how far you can go before refuel is helpful - sometimes you just don't keep track of that.

 

Maximum Combat Velocity/Maximum Noncombat Velocity/Maximum Range

 

Hawk: 30 MPH / 477 MPH / 11,455 Miles

Dove: 22 MPH / 358 MPH / 8,592 Miles

Screaming Mimi: 22 MPH / 178 MPH / 4,296 Miles

Luftjagr: 37 MPH / 298 MPH / 7,160 Miles

Runner Car: 60 MPH / 477 MPH / no fuel charge, forever?

UAV: 45 MPH / 179 MPH / 1,074 Miles

Rolling Thunder: 60 MPH / 477 MPH / 2,864 Miles

Kami-5: 84 MPH / 335 MPH / 2,014 Miles

(values were rounded, mileage may vary due to driving conditions and fuel quality.)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

You didn't place any fuel charges on the Runner Car' date=' not sure if that was an oversight or not.[/quote']

 

Good catch; I've updated this. It actually doesnt affect the vehicles cost, but it should be there.

 

I also went and figured out maximum ranges for each vehicle because I'm always curious about these things; Maximum Range was determined by moving at full non-combat velocity for the full run of the charge (full burn until it runs out of fuel).

 

I'm not sure if you did the same calculations or not, but if you didn't here they are. Sometimes knowing how far you can go before refuel is helpful - sometimes you just don't keep track of that.

 

Maximum Combat Velocity/Maximum Noncombat Velocity/Maximum Range

 

Hawk: 30 MPH / 477 MPH / 11,455 Miles

Dove: 22 MPH / 358 MPH / 8,592 Miles

Screaming Mimi: 22 MPH / 178 MPH / 4,296 Miles

Luftjagr: 37 MPH / 298 MPH / 7,160 Miles

Runner Car: 60 MPH / 477 MPH / no fuel charge, forever?

UAV: 45 MPH / 179 MPH / 1,074 Miles

Rolling Thunder: 60 MPH / 477 MPH / 2,864 Miles

Kami-5: 84 MPH / 335 MPH / 2,014 Miles

(values were rounded, mileage may vary due to driving conditions and fuel quality.)

Excellent and thanks! Ill review this for "makes sense". For instance I dont think the Rolling Thunder should have a higher top speed thant the Kami-5 so Ill have to tweak that around a bit.

 

Very helpful!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

I added a (civilian) JetCar build -- the military hasnt shown much interest in this technology, prefering the greater manueverablity of the hover based SkyCars, so theres not too many gunned up versions. But Ive provided one as a reference point.

 

I also did a sample Sentry Drone and Assault Drone plus Onboard Computers.

 

http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/WriteUps/VehicleCheck.html

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vehicle Review

 

Added a sample Sensor Drone, and an Attack Helicopter. I also went back and implemented both the Cramming based firmware for loading Maps, and the more expensive ChipReader method discussed above on various vehicles/comptuers.