Frameworks for character Disads

[Dr. Anomaly]

I know that character Disads aren't Powers, so you can't apply things like Advantages, Limitations, or Frameworks to them; but...

 

The recent discussion on "something I don't like about Multipowers" and Steve's "Supernatural Hot Spots" thread started me thinking about a rather unusual set-up:

 

Accidental Change for a Base or Vehicle...what, exactly, would that mean?

 

Well, if the base or vehicle had a Multiform, that's probably obvious.

 

But what if there are two different Disads that a base or vehicle might have, mutually exclusive, such that only one of them would apply at any given time, but which one applies at a given time depends on "outside" circumstances?

 

Well, if it's two Hunteds or for that matter two of the same type of Disad, I'd be tempted to bump it up to the next frequency of occurance and call it "good" (two different and distinct Hunteds, mutually exclusive, each at 8-, I'd probably lump into one Hunted "x or y" at 11-). That's certainly simpler than trying to muck about with Limited Disads or whatever, and I'd be following the principle set forth in Distinctive Features: further DF just make the character more distinctive, and they shouldn't usually be taken as seperate disads.

 

On the other hand, though, what if the Disads are really not connected with one another, type-wise, yet either could apply depending on the circumstances, but you can't have both in effect at the same time? It would be difficult indeed to do an "additive/next 'level' of effect" sort of thing if they aren't even set up the same way.

 

So what about a Multipower Framework for that kind of situation?

 

• You'd get more points than you would for just a single Disad
  
• You'd get less points than you would for having both Disads seperately
  

 

Something like this:

 

Multidisad: Supernatural 'Hot Spot' (15 points)

1u There's Just Something 'Wrong' About This Place: Unluck 3d6 (15 points)

1u The Place is Haunted!: Hunted (As Powerful), 11-, Easy to Find (for spirits), Mildly Punish -- 15 points

 

Total Disad Points: 17

 

Then toss in Accidental Change (at whatever frequency you want) that will indicate how often (and what circumstances) cause the Framework to flip from one Disad slot to the other. In the case of this example, perhaps any spilling of human blood in the building will cause the general "bad aura" of the place to manifest in a more focused manner by a hostile (though not murderous) spirit moving in and taking up residence...and with 3d6 of Unluck, an accident with a kitchen knife or something similar probably wouldn't be that uncommon an occurance! The slots would be "flipped back" by banishing the spirit, laying it to rest, or whatever. Like Steve was looking for in his thread, though, banishing a particular resident spirit doesn't get rid of the "ground being soured" or whatever, and it's quite likely that another spirit will move in sooner or later. Of course, if the place is empty and abandoned for years, there won't be a new haunting...until someone enters the place and happens to spill a drop of blood somehow...

 

 

Thoughts?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I'd be inclined to simply have a Disad Adder of "Not while Disad X is in effect" of a -5 Per Disad coordinated this way. I would not apply it to Disads that have an "activation roll" like Hunted's, Enraged, etc...

 

In your example above there would a total of 25 Points in Disads:

There's just something 'wrong' abut this place - Unluck 3D6; Not While Actively Haunted: 10pts

This place is hautned! - Hunted (As Powerful), 11-, Easy to Find (for spirits), Mildly Punish -- 15 points

 

At the start of each session the Haunted is rolled, if it comes up the Unluck doesn't appy, if it doesn't come up the Unluck does apply.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

Well, you'd need to count the points from Accidental Change for my suggestion as well, but I didn't put an exact value to it (and hence no points) because the frequency of how often it changed would be up to the person creating the 'hot spot'; but yeah, your way would work, too.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I would use the Accidental Change as a Second Chance for a haunting within the session.

 

The only weird thing I find about your idea is that Frameworks are designed to save Character Points and Disads are designed to get more Character Points... they almost seem mutually exclusive.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

Well, what I was thinking was having two Disads that are different types (not normally interchangable) but, unlike most Disads, they're not "always" available. If they're not "always" available, then they should be worth fewer points than they would be otherwise. If they're not the same type of Disad, you can't reasonably adjust the "chance of occurance" and lump them together, and for some (like Unluck) there simply isn't a "chance of occurance" at all.

 

So...if it's one Disad or the other...and you shouldn't get full points for both, because neither one is "always" available...sounds like a Multipower to me.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I'd likely just decrease the frequency (or visibility) of the Disadvantages appropriately. The rest can be SFX. I don't think the fact that both Disadantages occur less frequently is worth another Disadvantage.

[Maccabe]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I remember once a player wanted UNLUCK 2 and took the next level UNLUCK with an activation roll. UNLUCK 3 total. Reasoning- It's just going to be one of those days.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

In your example, I don't see how the Disads are mutually exclusive. The spirit only shows up if blood is spilt (that's the condition for arrival rather than rolling 3d6). The Unluck is rolled only if things are going well, and if blood is spilling all over the place and evil spirits are crashing the party, I don't think that quallifies for "going well."

 

While the concept of buying Disads in a Multipower seems to make sense, it really doesn't. Ultimately, it's the GM who decides when a Disads comes into play, and in what form it takes, so a Multipower would be nonfunctional. If a Disad really works in such as way that it is pre-empted by another at certain times, that just means it's worth less due to frequency.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

My point was that if one Disad can pre-empt another...well, you can't just "turn down the frequency" on something like Unluck, which doesn't have a frequency of occurance, unlike Hunted.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

My point was that if one Disad can pre-empt another...well' date=' you can't just "turn down the frequency" on something like Unluck, which doesn't [i']have[/i] a frequency of occurance, unlike Hunted.

 

But the GM is still in complete controll of when it affects your character. Given that statement alone, all Disads should quallify for No Conscious Control, but they don't because that would be stupid. It's a similar situation with applying Frameworks to Disads. It just doesn't quite work.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

But the GM is still in complete controll of when it affects your character. Given that statement alone' date=' all Disads should quallify for No Conscious Control, but they don't because that would be stupid. It's a similar situation with applying Frameworks to Disads. It just doesn't quite work.[/quote']

I could argue the NCC bit is built into the way Disads work, and is thus already cost-accounted-for (like the bits of Indirect that TK gets as built-in) but I'm not going to. I didn't post this to start an argument or anything -- it was just one of those ideas that popped into my head...a way things "could be" done...and I posted it. I'm not saying that's the way it should be done, or even that it's the way I'd do it. Just one of those oddball "Hey, I wonder if..." moments.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I think the idea behind the post has merrit ... having Disads work in concert: if Disad X is in effect, Disad Y does not apply and vice-versa.

 

you could model true MPD with that as well.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Frameworks for character Disads

 

I could argue the NCC bit is built into the way Disads work' date=' and is thus already cost-accounted-for (like the bits of Indirect that TK gets as built-in) but I'm not going to. I didn't post this to start an argument or anything -- it was just one of those ideas that popped into my head...a way things "could be" done...and I posted it. I'm not saying that's the way it [i']should be[/i] done, or even that it's the way I'd do it. Just one of those oddball "Hey, I wonder if..." moments.

 

No problem, I didn't figure it was a serious suggestion. To me, it's a mechanical impossibility though. Disads just don't work that way. I suppose they could be made to work that way though... but why?