Held Actions

[KarinsDad]

If a character #1 with a speed of 6 is holding an action on segment 4 to shoot the first character that comes through a doorway, then:

 

1) If character #2 comes through the doorway on segment #5, then he gets to shoot him (with a possible DEX rolloff depending on GM).

 

2) If character #2 comes through the doorway after character #1s DEX on segment #6, then he gets to redeclare his held action on his initiative and shoot him (with a possible DEX rolloff depending on GM).

 

3) If character #2 comes through the doorway BEFORE character #1s DEX on segment #6, then he does not get to shoot him since his held action reset at the beginning of segment #6 and he cannot abort to an attack.

 

So, how does this work? I checked the errata, but could not find a reference.

 

Shouldn't it just be that held actions do not reset with the caveat that a character just cannot do two actions in a single segment?

 

The book states that held actions are lost at the beginning of the characters next phase (not sure of the page #, somewhere around 240 I think). This would be very problematic for a speedster with a SPD of 12 if his opponent has a higher DEX. It would mean that holding an action basically has virtually no meaning in this scenario (unless the opponent is holding as well).

[Steve Long]

This is not a question. AFAICT, this is a restatement of the rules and a complaint about how they work. Therefore it's inappropriate for this board, so I've moved it to "HERO System Discussion" in case anyone would like to discuss or comment.

[Killer Shrike]

A Character's Phase does not begin until thier DEX in that Segment.

[austenandrews]

I run it as Shrike said -- you lose the previous held action at your DEX, when your next action begins. That is, there's no arbitrary "window" when a held action mysteriously vanishes. The first held action just blends into the following one, seamlessly.

 

I should also add that if the character uses his held action before his DEX on that segment, he loses that next Phase. Just seems fair to me.

 

I have no idea if the 5E rules agree with me, but I've done it that way for twenty years and I'm not about to change.

 

-AA

[KarinsDad]

Originally posted by austenandrews

I run it as Shrike said -- you lose the previous held action at your DEX, when your next action begins. That is, there's no arbitrary "window" when a held action mysteriously vanishes. The first held action just blends into the following one, seamlessly.

 

I should also add that if the character uses his held action before his DEX on that segment, he loses that next Phase. Just seems fair to me.

 

Unfortunately, I am not the GM when we play Champions. But, we ran into this problem in our game. Fortunately in our game, the action being held was a Dive For Cover to protect an innocent, hence, the action could still be aborted to. But it could have just as easily been an offensive action.

 

Originally posted by austenandrews

I have no idea if the 5E rules agree with me, but I've done it that way for twenty years and I'm not about to change.

 

Yup.

 

But what I find extremely strange is Steve's stubbornness on this. Not only did he blow it off the first time I asked, but his second response is just plain nonsensical ("If they happen to walk through the door in the split-seconds in which he can't act, that's his tough luck.").

 

I cannot think of a single scenario for why the rule would be the way it is, and not a single person has either come up with one, nor agreed with Steve on this. To me, having a totally nonsensical rule and not fixing this in the errata does not make any sense.

 

To be totally fair to Steve, there is an Abort rule that states that if you abort your held action for a defensive one, you do not lose your next phase. But, there wouldn’t be a conflict between these two rules if the Held rule on page 235 was written properly since the Abort rule would then not apply (e.g. "However, he can never use an action to take two actions in the same segment. If a Held action is taken for any reason before his DEX within his new phase, the character does not get an action for his normal DEX within that phase.").

[Templar Jakob]

I can see pros and cons to your complaint of the rule, and i see the same for Killer Shrike & Austenandrews reply. In the campaigns that i run, i agree mostly with Austenandrews answer to it. However, as with all game systems, (page 356 in the 5th Edition Sytem Book) change the rules if it better fits your GMing style. Or in your case where you aren't the GM, just ask him about it. Show pros and cons of changing the rule. Just make sure that the rule you are changing cant get taken out of hand and cause major problems in game play.

 

Bryan