Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

[Jhaierr]

I've been reading The Mystic World quite a bit in preparation for my upcoming mystic superhero campaign, and one thing seems to confuse me a bit:

 

Can a mystic only reach the planes within Yetzirah, Briah, and Atziluth using astral travel (i.e., in an astral form)?

 

At first read, it appears the answer is "yes"... but then I encounter other places in the text that seem to indicate that you can physically travel to these planes. (I wish I could ask the author of the book, actually. I'm trying to determine his original intent, and I'm curious if anyone else has any interpretations.)

 

Interpretation #1: All planes that are not a plane like the "material world" (Malkuth) can only be accessed using an astral form and leaving your body behind.

 

I don't think this is correct. This would limit travel to any of the weirder realms to a 24-hour period (because of astral form limitations), plus you'd never get to bring any magical items there. Enter just one place in Faerie where time passes incredibly slowly, and your body dies back on Earth.

 

Interpretation #2: Some planes are accessed astrally, and others are accessed physically, with no mixing.

 

I don't think this is the answer either. You can get to the Netherworld and Faerie from the Astral Plane pretty easily, and there are gates to the worlds on the material realm as well.

 

Interpretation #3: All planes can be accessed either astrally or physically, with different results.

 

Perhaps this is the best answer so far? You can visit other worlds in the physical realm astrally, but only as an "astral traveller" with the limitations and advantages of such. But when your astral form goes to Faerie, Babylon, Netherworld, and Elysium, you are as solid as anyone else there. You don't have any physical or focus-derived powers, however. If you physically travel to those planes, however, you may bring foci and physical powers. The same with the higher planes and other magic dimensions.

 

If we go with #3, this would lead me to think that astral projection is really just the first step in extra-dimensional exploration. EDM powers would eventually supersede astral form as a mystic advances. Who wouldn't want to take their magic items with them?

 

Any thoughts on this, official or unofficial?

[Vondy]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

I don't know current game wise, but in terms of the source of the names (the kabbalah) the answer is - you can only "go there" via "expanded consciousness," but even then, what you "see" in the spirit/inner realm isn't what is actually there, but rather, the perceptions of the mind's eye (your mind trying to bend the infinite into finite forms our piddly minds can comprehend). But of course, in their original context, they aren't separate worlds at all, but deeper and successively less finite expressions of the infinite truth, which we are all connected to within. This of course is entirely wrong from a gaming point of view, however, as the originator (in Mystic Masters) decided to use the very implementation the masters of the kabballah warned of and forbade as a subtle version of idolotry, its probably not relevant. Personally, that the sacred meditations of a faith was taken, ripped from its context, and made light of for profit, annoys me to no end.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

This of course is entirely wrong from a gaming point of view' date=' however, as the originator (in Mystic Masters) decided to use the very implementation the masters of the kabballah warned of and forbade as a subtle version of idolotry, its probably not relevant. Personally, that the sacred meditations of a faith was taken, ripped from its context, and made light of for profit, annoys me to no end.[/quote']

 

I think you mean the Ultimate Supermage which was also by Shomshak. Mystic Masters by Allen Varney didn't have much in the way of a cosmology or planar structure, it spent most time on character builds and background. And was (aside from the pesky new multipower for each spell suite idea) a better book.

[Vondy]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

I think you mean the Ultimate Supermage. Mystic Masters didn't have much in the way of a cosmology or planar structure' date=' it spent most time on character builds and background. And was (aside from the pesky new mulitpower for each spell suite idea) a better book.[/quote']

 

You are correct.

[Artifex]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

I was one of the playtesters on USM; in our Keystone Konjurors campaign, you could go physically *or* astrally.

 

In Elysium & the Netherworld, an astral form was solid. I don't think it ever happened that someone astral projected to Babylon or Land of Legends. In other dimensions of the Malkuth/Yetzirah nature, you'd probably still be astral,

but exceptions were possible.

 

In Briah, an astral form would be indistinguishable from a physical form; that's the level of abstract entities like the 4 Zoas. Getting to Briah involved passing thru the Veil of the Temple, generally a whole adventure in itself. The Guardian puts all first-timers thru a bit of psychodrama involving confrontations with alternate versions of themselves, &/or repressed aspects of their personalities. This is a good excuse to buy off or add Psych Lims.

Generally, everyone passes thru, but usually changed, not always for the better.

 

Getting to Atziluth involved crossing the Abyss, where even the Zoas can't go. As I recall, the harder you fought, the more damage you took, & EGO rolls had to be failed to avoid damage; it's a whole 'give up you ego' thing. The only one ever to make it across was in a deep trance, unaware of the crossing. My character threw her across so that one of us would beat Skarn

in a race to ascend to the highest planes of existence. The experience was essentially Becoming One With Everything. In our game, at least, getting to Atziluthic realms took a whole story or a bad accident.

 

Your game, YMMV. Hope this helped.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

Interesting. Thanks for the responses so far.

[Kristopher]

Re: Question about the mystic planes of the Champions Universe

 

I don't know current game wise' date=' but in terms of the source of the names (the kabbalah) the answer is - you can only "go there" via "expanded consciousness," but even then, what you "see" in the spirit/inner realm isn't what is actually there, but rather, the perceptions of the mind's eye (your mind trying to bend the infinite into finite forms our piddly minds can comprehend). But of course, in their original context, they aren't separate worlds at all, but deeper and successively less finite expressions of the infinite truth, which we are all connected to within. This of course is entirely wrong from a gaming point of view, however, as the originator (in Mystic Masters) decided to use the very implementation the masters of the kabballah warned of and forbade as a subtle version of idolotry, its probably not relevant. Personally, that the sacred meditations of a faith was taken, ripped from its context, and made light of for profit, annoys me to no end.[/quote']

 

And put that way, I'm a lot more sympathetic to the objection than I've been to the objections of others in the past. (Which basically amounted to "You printed a book that mentioned what I believe in and didn't treat it as the utmost truth.")

 

I think the easiest thing to do would have been to change the names...make something up, instead of using those particular names.