Barghest v.0.1

[Thia Halmades]

Okay y'all; this is my first semi-major creature conversion. For those unaware of my history here, I've gotten pretty good at building single objects/items on the spot, but multiple powers into a structure as part of a character is still vaguely new to me. I converted this puppy from d20, and I'm now posting it (apologies for the ugly format) for your input. Here goes.

 

Barghest

 

7 STR 17, +3d6

15 DEX 15, 5 OCV/5 DCV

6 CON 13

8 BODY 14

4 INT 14, PER 12-

8 EGO 14, 5 ECV

4 PRE 14, 2d6 1/2 PRE Attack

1 COM 12

 

3 PD 6 (12 PD/6 rPD)

2 ED 5 (11 ED/6 rED)

5 SPD 3

3 REC 8

14 END 40

10 STUN 35

 

Powers:

 

15 Demon Jaws; +3 HKA (1d6+3 w/STR, 15 Active Points)

12 Flashing Claws; 1d6 (2d6 w/STR, 15 Active Points), Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

8 Quick Snap; +4 OCV with Demon Jaws

4 Swift Hands; +2 OCV with Flashing Claws

9 Lupine Agility: +3 DCV

18 Infernal Hide 6 rPD/6 rED

 

30 Blink: +3 DCV, Continuous (+1), (30 Active Points) (not vs. Force Attacks or Ghost-Touch weapons, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4), plus +3 OCV, Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4) [6 END]

 

5 Levitate: Flight, 5" (10 Active Points), Only to move up or down (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) [1 END]

 

20 Rage: Aid STR 1d6, plus Aid CON 1d6, plus Aid BODY 2d6 (40 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Side Effect (-2 DCV, -1/2, lasts until all AID points have depleted) [4 END]

 

16 Crushing Despair: Drain DEX 2d6, plus Drain STR 1d6, AOE Cone (+1), (60 Active Points); Charges (1, -2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4)

 

Talents

 

9 Lightning Reflexes +6

 

Skills

 

3 Analyze Motive: 12-

3 Concealment: 12-

5 Rapid Attack

3 Stealth: 12-

5 Tracking: 13-

9 PER Rolls: +3

 

264 points.

 

Disdavantages

 

Hunted (KOSC, As Powerful, Kill, Frequent, 20 CP)

Rivalry (Other Barghests for Dominance, 10 CP)

Distinctive Features (Hard to Conceal, causes immediate reaction (attack), 20 CP)

Pack-Minded (Must follow pack alpha, Common, Strong, 15 CP)

Unnecessarily Cruel (Will take extra time to inflict pain or suffering on the weak and helpless, Common, Strong, 15 CP)

 

75 points disadvantages.

 

This is WITHOUT going through the hassle of building in Multiform (although, admittedly, the Goblin & Wolf forms are fairly cheap and I can find them in the index & MM&M). With those this Barghest, which is a CR 4 d20 monster, climbs considerably into the 300+ point range.

 

Thoughts? Takers? Opinions? Edits? I am actively soliciting your aid.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

I think it looks pretty good. I can't recall if I've ever used a Barghest in a D&D campaign so I don't know what it's like. The only thing I was wondering about is, why are you paying for Continuous on the Blink power? I thought CSLs were already Continuous? I'm guessing you want something temporary, but I've always been fuzzy on messing with power durations.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

I'm not sure myself; I think because what I'm trying (trying) to accomplish is something that's either VERY ugly in HERO, or grossly over-powered in d20. What BLINK truly is a very whacked out Desolid. You're only 'here' half the time, and the other half of the time you're in the Ethereal Plane. The best way I can think to simulate everything that Blink does (and I was struggling with it before going "screw it, I'll stick to the basics" is a Continuous and/or Charge Duration Desolid that, every time you're attacked, it requires an Activation Roll. If it works, you get missed! If it hits, it hits normally vs. normal defenses. That seems somewhere between clean & kludgey. In addition, it grants an OCV bonus because you're 'popping' in and out of existance, and a DCV bonus because you're a pain to line up in the first place. Building all of that in goes well, WELL over the 60 point limit for a level 3 spell.*

 

*Note: limit is imposed on my own campaign, based on Killer Shrike's mechanics, and not meant in any way to imply that HERO has a limit, simply to reflect that to keep with my source material and game balance, this power cannot exceed 60 points.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

While we're at it... lemme try this. What I want is a Blink spell, built on Desolid (I hope) that reflects a character who is phasing in between realities; partially here, partially there (the Nexar AEthereal). What I'm unsure of is how to do this in such a way that it's a) reasonably costed, doesn't become an EDM ('cause you don't "go there" you pop back & forth) and allows the same rules to apply either way. So to hit someone HERE, you must make a Activation Roll; to hit someone THERE, same thing. And for anyone to try and hit YOU, YOU now make an Activation Roll as well.

 

Thoughts?

 

Blink: Desolid, Cannot Pass Through Objects (-1/2), Only vs. Physical Attacks (-1), Requires an Activation Roll (13-, -3/4), Character Exists partially in Ethereal Plane (-0), Can be hit by AEthereal Creatures/Effects (-1/2), Can Strike AEthereal Creatures (Activation Roll? Double Dipping?)

 

That's where it gets ugly.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Thia, I'd suggest an activation roll of 11-. This would be closer to simulating a half-material/half-etheral since 11- is about 50%. You might also want to consider then in this case, that his attacks would also gain a 11- activation roll. If he strikes at you at the precise moment he blinks out, he'd miss. You could add this is as a side effect perhaps? This doesn't model D&D's version of blink but it MAKES SENSE.

 

As for "can be hit by etheral creatures", I'd save this for handwaving. Chances are, if something etheral is trying to kill him, he'd just stop blinking, assuming he can control it. It would only be a problem if he's got a group of people in the material plane AND a group of people in the etheral plane both trying to kill him. This will probably not happen in your game.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Right, exactly, I'm trying to get the power to the point where it's effective AND logical. 11- may very well be the way to go, you've got a point there. Do you want to take a stab at writing this up? At least the Desolid element of it? My brain finally started melting. I think I need to hunt & kill my lunch.

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

My brain finally started melting. I think I need to hunt & kill my lunch.

 

Make sure you eat it before it resurrects

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

That's the other major power I didn't build: Feed. It eats people and gets PERMANENTLY more powerful. How would YOU build it?

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

That's the other major power I didn't build: Feed. It eats people and gets PERMANENTLY more powerful. How would YOU build it?

 

Can it get more powerful on its own? If so, let it have XP for not just killing but eating its prey. (Does it have to eat them alive to gain that benefit? Or can it just eat whatever it happens to stumble across?) If not, the best I can think of is a point reserve "only to be spent on appropriate powers, as it consumes" with whatever you have left after spending points on its initial abilities.

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

While we're at it... lemme try this. What I want is a Blink spell, built on Desolid (I hope) that reflects a character who is phasing in between realities; partially here, partially there (the Nexar AEthereal). What I'm unsure of is how to do this in such a way that it's a) reasonably costed, doesn't become an EDM ('cause you don't "go there" you pop back & forth) and allows the same rules to apply either way. So to hit someone HERE, you must make a Activation Roll; to hit someone THERE, same thing. And for anyone to try and hit YOU, YOU now make an Activation Roll as well.

 

Thoughts?

 

If only you could give their powers a Limitation . . . well, come to think of it:

 

Damage Shield only works once they've already hit you, so we can't use it here, but how about a Transform to give their powers and attacks the Limitation "half chance of hitting", and even have that effect on AOE powers? I think an AOE (sphere, line of sight) ought to do it; any Continuous power would have to be truly Continuous (not just happening every round, like an Autofire) to affect the Barghest, and just because it hit the first time doesn't mean it can the rest. Of course, the cost of this would be through the roof, so let's dismiss that idea.

 

You could go with an OCV reduction instead of "Limitation"; "up to half their chances of hitting you", meaning halfway between whatever they need to roll and a 3. Or, aargh. Did I mention I suck at math?

 

Whatever, you figure it out. Anyway, the OCV reductions would be cheaper, but you'd still need an AOE sphere for anyone that would conceivably be hitting it, and you'd need another power to explain how they could miss with an AOE attack.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

I have no idea where my Barghest/Black Dog write up went, but I did one for my Epic Celt campaign quite a while back. I, however, went with the more traditional "Terrifying huge black dog with shaggy fur and staring red eyes the size of saucers" version rather than the Goblin/Wolf were-demon-ish bastardization that D&D/D20 gave us.

 

More or less took a wolf, upscaled it to around Direwolf scale (Legends put them between the size of a calf and a drafthorse) and gave it a suite of powers that fit the various Black Dog legends. Invisibility (w/ Fringe, the fringe defined as "you catch glimpses out of the corner of your eyes"), Desolid as its "natural" state (with the ability to become solid inhibited by holy ground, prayer, faerie charms, and a few folk wards such as wearing your clothes backwards), a rather huge PRE attack, a constant PRE drain stare, a constant Transform that causes Unluck in those who see it. I left the harbinger of doom bit as an option... any Bansidhe style "you'll die if you see it" powers tend to be nasty to unleash on PC's.

 

I'm guessing that there will be a rather similar write up in the upcoming Celtic Bestiary.

 

Oh, and here's one of my favorite illustrations of a/the Barghest I've stumbled across online...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

9 Feed: Transform Barghest to Greater Barghest, 1d6, Constant, (+1); Gradual Effect (-3/4), OAF (Available Fresh Corpse, -1), Gestures (Eating, -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4) [3 END]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

31 Blink: Desolid (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Objects (-1/2), Does Not Work vs. Force Effects (-1/2), Requires an Activation Roll (Any given attack that does not Affect Desolid creatures, including attacks occuring in the AEtherial Plane, 11-, -1), Caster Exists partially in AEthereal Plane (-0), Can be hit by AEthereal Creatures/Effects (-1/2) plus +2 OCV (10 Active Points) plus +2 DCV (10 Active Points) [6 END]

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Greater Barghest

 

7 STR +7

10 BODY +5

4 INT +4

8 EGO +4

4 PRE +4

 

Add 2 Handed Sword (2d6, +2 OCV, +1 DC)

+9 OCV w/Deadly Jaws

+5 OCV w/Flashing Claws

+6 OCV w/2 Handed Sword

10 points Martial Manuevers

24 Improved Infernal Hide (rPD 6/rED 12)

10 Power Defense (5)

 

Gains: Invisibility Sphere (at will), Mass Bull's Strength (1/day), Mass Enlarge (1/day).

[Susano]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Barghest

 

7 STR 17, +3d6

15 DEX 15, 5 OCV/5 DCV

6 CON 13

8 BODY 14

4 INT 14, PER 12-

8 EGO 14, 5 ECV

4 PRE 14, 2d6 1/2 PRE Attack

1 COM 12

 

Knowing what I do of D&D demons and the like, I have to wonder at a 12 COM, but...

 

BTW -- what is a Barghest? A humanoid or a dog? I know only of the latter in folklore.

 

3 PD 6 (12 PD/6 rPD)

2 ED 5 (11 ED/6 rED)

5 SPD 3

3 REC 8

14 END 40

10 STUN 35

 

Powers:

 

15 Demon Jaws; +3 HKA (1d6+3 w/STR, 15 Active Points)

12 Flashing Claws; 1d6 (2d6 w/STR, 15 Active Points), Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

8 Quick Snap; +4 OCV with Demon Jaws

4 Swift Hands; +2 OCV with Flashing Claws

9 Lupine Agility: +3 DCV

18 Infernal Hide 6 rPD/6 rED

 

At this point I am seriously thinking you should just give it +2 with HTH and then +2 OCV with Demon Jaws. Gives you more combat flexibility.

 

30 Blink: +3 DCV, Continuous (+1), (30 Active Points) (not vs. Force Attacks or Ghost-Touch weapons, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4), plus +3 OCV, Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4) [6 END]

 

I'm not sure what you're building here, but I note that you have an END cost and no where do you have the CSLs costing END. Also, why Continuous? CSLs are already Continuous by deafult. I presume the Concentration is only to cast? Otherwise this power is kind of useless.

 

5 Levitate: Flight, 5" (10 Active Points), Only to move up or down (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) [1 END]

 

20 Rage: Aid STR 1d6, plus Aid CON 1d6, plus Aid BODY 2d6 (40 Active Points); Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Side Effect (-2 DCV, -1/2, lasts until all AID points have depleted) [4 END]

 

16 Crushing Despair: Drain DEX 2d6, plus Drain STR 1d6, AOE Cone (+1), (60 Active Points); Charges (1, -2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV, -1/4)

 

Talents

 

9 Lightning Reflexes +6

 

Between the OCV and DCV bonuses and this -- I'm thinking it needs a much higher DEX.

 

Skills

 

3 Analyze Motive: 12-

3 Concealment: 12-

5 Rapid Attack

3 Stealth: 12-

5 Tracking: 13-

9 PER Rolls: +3

 

264 points.

 

Disdavantages

 

Hunted (KOSC, As Powerful, Kill, Frequent, 20 CP)

Rivalry (Other Barghests for Dominance, 10 CP)

Distinctive Features (Hard to Conceal, causes immediate reaction (attack), 20 CP)

Pack-Minded (Must follow pack alpha, Common, Strong, 15 CP)

Unnecessarily Cruel (Will take extra time to inflict pain or suffering on the weak and helpless, Common, Strong, 15 CP)

 

75 points disadvantages.

 

This is WITHOUT going through the hassle of building in Multiform (although, admittedly, the Goblin & Wolf forms are fairly cheap and I can find them in the index & MM&M). With those this Barghest, which is a CR 4 d20 monster, climbs considerably into the 300+ point range.

 

Thoughts? Takers? Opinions? Edits? I am actively soliciting your aid.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Here's the general concept: setting aside for the moment it's supposed to have a Multiform built into it (Wolf, Goblin, Hybrid) the idea is that it's a large, ravenous monster which is capable of eating just about anything. They move & attack in packs, and strike initially from the shadows, getting the drop on their prey whenever possible.

 

The Blink spell, which I keep revising, is supposed to allow them to shuffle back and forth between this plane and the AEtherial plane, and I'm calling that an SFX of Desolid, in this case, your Desolid means you've stepped into the Near AEtherial. Further, because you're constantly bouncing back & forth, once the spell is cast (and being maintained via END) you gain an Activation Roll (like Armor) to avoid taking damage, and further, you gain +2 DCV (harder to hit) and +2 OCV (constantly popping up where people don't expect you.) That's the concept behind Blink. Making it work is something else again.

 

I will make the adjustment of +2 HTH (10?) and then an additional +2 w/DemonJaws. Thanks!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

BTW -- what is a Barghest? A humanoid or a dog? I know only of the latter in folklore.

I'm kinda suspecting that the current d20 model of the Barghest has very little to do with actual folkloric Black Dogs, and a lot of free association derived from a common dictionary definition of Barghest...

 

bar·ghest also bar·guest (bär'gĕst) pronunciation

n.

 

A goblin in English folklore, often appearing in the shape of a large dog and believed to portend imminent death or misfortune.

 

[bar (perhaps from BARROW) + ghest, ghost (dialectal variant of GHOST).]

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

+9 OCV w/Deadly Jaws

+5 OCV w/Flashing Claws

 

The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

 

24 Improved Infernal Hide (rPD 6/rED 12)

 

In addition to Blink occasionally vanishing the Barghest off to another plane of existence (creating DVC bonuses), its infernal origin gives it an enhanced ability to Hide In Shadows (providing rPD/rED bonuses).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Right. You can find it on the Hypertext SRD and grasp the concept behind what I'm going after.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Here's what I'm thinking Thia (note for Desolid you are supposed to pick a special effect that works against it, see 5ER 148):

 

Blink: Desolidification (affected by Force attacks) (40 Active Points); Activation Roll 11- (-1), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2), Can be attacked by ethereal creatures (-0) (16 Real Cost)

Blinking Claw: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6, Affects Physical World (+2) (90 Active Points); Activation Roll 11- (-1) (45 Real Cost)

Non-blinking Claw: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2 1/2d6 w/STR) (30 Real Cost)

 

Sure, you're duplicating a lot of the claw cost but since this isn't a PC, who really cares? You can do a similar thing for the bite attack too.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

That's where I'm stuck. The SFX of Blink is that before you do anything, on either plane, you must make an Activation Roll; I can build the claw as an element of the Spell (Affects Physical World) as in fact, Desolid says specifically, "Do not attach Affects Physical World to Desolid." But that doesn't quite get what I'm going after. What i truly want is (for once, ironically) to come as close as possible to simulating the original spell. In other words:

 

I want a Blink spell that leaves you 1/2 here, and 1/2 there, and to do anything in either place, or be hit from either place, an Activation Roll is required. AHA!

 

SIDE EFFECT: Prior to making an attack, the caster must make an Activation Roll (11-) or the attack originates in the incorrect plane. (-1/2).

 

So simple, yet so evasive. When in doubt, Side Effect. And, because you're never truly "desolid," that's just the emanation of the power, GM Fiat says you aren't purchasing "affects physical world." You're never not physical - you just aren't always here. HA! Take THAT d20!

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

SIDE EFFECT: Prior to making an attack' date=' the caster must make an Activation Roll (11-) or the attack originates in the incorrect plane. (-1/2).[/quote']

 

What if the Barghest is targeting something or someone that exists in both planes?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Err...I don't think you need Affects Solid World. If the Activation Roll for the Desolidification works, then it can't attack solid targets. If the roll fails, the Desolidification isn't on and it can attack solid targets, but it can be hit until the next Phase. If the creature can't turn the blinking off (even if it doesn't mind being hit more often), then add on Reduced End Cost: 0 End, Persistent, and Always On.

 

If you really want it to apply seperately against every incoming attack, still make it Persistent, but I suppose you really might need Affects Solid World (maybe with another Acrivation Roll Limitation applied directly to the Advantage) after all, unless the GM is kind enough to say you don't because opponents could delay their Phases until the moment it attacks or whatever.

[Robyn]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

Err...I don't think you need Affects Solid World. If the Activation Roll for the Desolidification works' date=' then it can't attack solid targets. If the roll fails, the Desolidification isn't on and it can attack solid targets,[/quote']

 

That seems kind of like getting two powers for the price of one. But I'm tired, and I'll take another look at it tomorrow.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Barghest v.0.1

 

I've always done Displacer and Blink style monsters as a big magical + DCV Bonus (Say, +8 DCV, Costs END) With a Blinking moster also getting Effects Desolid on its attacks. Figure if it can go totally aetherial then it also has Desolid. If it can't (I can't remember Blink dogs that well, never really my bag, but they are kinda how I'm remembering this stuff..)then the DCV bonus is probably persistant.

That way, if its totally out of phase, it can walk through walls, ignore attacks, etc... It can menace (PRE Attacks) but can't actually interact with anything.

So it blinks partially into and out of phase. It's now "solid", in that its never desolid long enough to really move through anything. But fast moving attacks stand a very good chance of clean slipping through a out of phase moment.

It should be able to attack targets in either dimension, so it gets effcts desolid on the bite.

Or...( a grusome thought)

Make the bite Variable Advantage : Effects Desolid or Penetrating. Maybe even Extra Stun Mods. I'm having nightmares thinking about what rapidily desolidfying & resolidifying Wolf Jaws rummaging around in a chest cavity would do to someone.

Could throw in Damage Reduction too, but if the DCV bonus is big enough, it works better as an Either/Or in my opinion. Either you connect with a part you can hurt, and it gets hit, or you don't (miss by the added DCV).

Besides...

This one fits you as a third level spell