Magic System Crunch

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Quoted to move it up the thread so I can see it easier. For reference, this is Rev 7

 

Alright, Here I am again, putting up a magic system. This time though I'm not looking for praise or use or anything similer. Basicly I need some critique and help balancing it. Any Feedback is welcome though.

At the moment all I have are the mechanics for basic spellcasting, but it's based loosly on Killer Shrikes Spellweaving system. Anyway heres what I got in as simple and readable a format as I can make it.

Basic Spellcasting

• No Framworks (except to define specific spells)
  
• Power Construct for spells may only take SFX Limitations. No Procedural Limitations (Gestures, Incantations, etc)
  
• Spells must take minimum of 1 Half-Phase to Activate. Powers which normally take a 0-phase to activate get a -1/4 limitation for this. (It is considered an SFX Limitation)
  
• Powers Must Cost END, either inherently or because they are purchased with the appropiate limitation.
  
• Powers Must be Visible, or at least have their Source be visible.
  
• Spells which are constant are encouraged to cost END only to activate, and have the Uncontroled modifier. It helps conserve the mages strength.
  
• As a rule of thumb, when using the Uncontroled modifier, powers which require a set duration (like ones that don't cost END to maintain) should be set to 20 Minutes + one level down the time chart per 40 AP after the first. 1-40=20 minutes, 41-80=1 Hour, 81-120 = 6 Hours, etc.
  
• Spells Automaticly recieve the RSR: "Eldritch Control" Limitation at -1/5AP. This Limitation is a system ground rule and has no limitation value. (See "Casting Procedure Rules" for more information)
  
• Skill Roll Failure does not indicate power failure, but rather suffer Backlash, Multiplying the END Cost by 1 + [Amount Roll is Failed By]/2. Constant powers may still deactivate if the user is knocked out or stunned as a result of exaustion of END, Also, for powers which cost END to maintain the increased cost only applies when the power is first activated.
  
• Eldritch Control Skill is an INT based skill costing 3 points. Characters do not purchase Skills levels in the normal fasion (See below).
  
• Characters may not define spells as drawing from END reserves
  
• Spells recieve Cost Multiplier of 0.1 (or 1/10 of the Spells Real Point Cost)
  

Example: Ertai "the Grand", is a power, if eccentric mage, The GM allows his player to purchase a variant on the Lightning Bolt spell known as "Prismatic Lightning", The spell is 70 AP, 47 RP after limitations, and Costs 5 Points for Ertai to purchase. Each casting requires an Eldritch Control roll at -14 to cast. Ertai's 20 INT gives him a 13- roll. He better apply a lot of procedures if he doesn't want to knock himself out casting.

Casting Procedure Rules

• Characters apply a given Procedure (represented as a limitation or group of limitations), or several procedures, to his spells in order to make them easier to cast (represented as a bonus to the skill roll. These are considered a special kind of skill level.
  
• Characters must apply at least one procedural limitation aside from extra time to any spell they wish to cast. Representing in effect the characters "declaration of intent".
  
• Each "Procedure" grants +1 to the Eldritch Control Skill roll for every -1/4 in limitations it applies to the spell the roll is being made for.
  
• Rarely, procedures involve the use of modifiers which are not actually procedural limitations. Most often these are the Delayed Effect Advantage (and storing lims) or modifiers representing SFX limitations for that specific procedure. Storing Limitations and these SFX lims still acumalate levels of the spell they are used with, but at half the rate (+1 per -1/2 rather then +1 per -1/4). Advantages, such as Delayed Effect, are ignored to the purposes of determining number of levels granted.
  
• Each Procedure known by the caster must be approved by the GM; As must which of those procedures a caster can conbine in the same casting (naturally).
  
• Optionally, the GM can choose to represent the characters knowledge of differing way of casting (procedures) through a knowledge skill. KS: [Nation/culture] Spellcasting, aside from effecivly acting as a familarity for that cultures Spell Procedures character would be allowed to make rolls to remember other information about that culture or groups magical tradition.
  
• The Benefits (and Limitations) of each procedure are treated seperately regardless of the exact mechanics used, although some procedures may not be used together if the limitations representing them conflict.
  

Example: Ertai the Grand, an essentric if powerful mage, is attempting to cast his (in)famous "Prismatic Lightning" Spell, In order to offset the penalty so that he doesn't knock himself out in the process, He decides to Apply a "Spell Focus" procedure using the Gaudily painted and rune ensized lightning rod he always carried with him, this is worth -1 (considered an OAF). And also a small Diagram limitation worth -1 (represented as an OIF Fragile, drawing utensils and sufficiant space of oportunity, diagram is easily marred, Full-Phase of Extra Time). Normally, the two Foci would be summed up into one (considerably less valuable limitation) but because they are seperate "precedures" each foci is considered a distinct limitation. This would remain the case even if the GM rules that because the environment around Ertai is sandy, he can use the rod he's holding to draw the diagram (thus acting in a sense as two seperate foci at once). This adds up to a total of -2 in limitations, or +8 to the Skill roll. Deciding that this isn't enough of a sucess margin he adds to those procedures a "Meditation" procedure worth -1&1/4 (represented as Extra Time: Extra Phase, and 0DCV Concentration), For a total of -3&1/4, or +13 to the roll Roll.

Other Rules Considerations

• Once a caster has begun a spell, he may not abort it regardless of the results of the skill roll. (Basicly he can't abort the spell if he failed the roll)
  
• The sucess or failure of each spell is determined seperately, thusly multiple spells cast in the same phase make seperate Skill Rolls, and any END cost from failure is determined seperately for each spell.
  
• Learning magic represents a serious carreer path, the learning of which takes many years of discipline and conditioning. As such, character may not purchase less then 20 character points worth of spells when designing a spellcasting character.
  

SFX Considerations

Healing: Healing under this form of magic is extraordinarily limited, following the stereo type held in most forms of arcane magic. The best even the most capable of healers can do it's expidite the healing process, though the increase is literally exponential, some recovering from near fatal injuries in days or less.

Mechanics: Healing Effects should nigh universally be purshased with the Gradual Effect, and Decreased (or increased) Reuse Duration modifiers, and must be set to the same level on the Time Chart. Suchs spells should also never restore more then 2d6/6 hours. Though exceptions, such as Healing: Flash, Exist.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Well lets crunch the numbers then' date=' assuming a 13- roll (14 with minimum procedures) a 75 AP spell (fireball to use a past example) we've got -15 penalty. End result of or "-1"- to the roll, the highest you can roll is 18, so you would have to roll an 18+ [(-1)-18=19'] to fail by enough to cause automatic spell failure. given that a 3d6 roll produces a 3-18 range, roughly 6.6% of landing on any given result within the range. So with minimum Procedures all spells have an auto cancel rate of 6.6%/5AP over 70

 

3d6 does not have a linear progression. An 18 comes up 1 time in 216, less than a 1/2 % chance. A 15- comes up 95.37% of the time, so that's a 4.63% chance of catastrohic failure at that level (so 15 more AP - 85). A 12- comes up 74.07%, so that's over 1 in 4 catastrophic failures if you have that 13- skill, no procedures and a 100 AP spell.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

I Honestly have trouble believing that rolling an 18 is a 1/2% event. I've rolled better then that generating DnD characters.

Rolling a 6 on a d6 is about a 16.6% chance, your chance of rolling a 6 again doesn't change simply because a die was rolled before it, so I think it becomes more likely that your "actual" chance of rolling the same number consectuativly would be divided by the number of times you rolled, in which case you chance of rolling an 18 would be about 5.53, only slighly better then the chance of rolling an 18 on a d20.

But were kinda getting off topic. Either way the chance of failing under such a system would rise either in an arithmatic or exponential fashion. In anycase it's still not a system I particularly wish to implement simply because thats the whole reason I went to the trouble of designing a differeing mechanic, I'm sick of mages getting killed just because their spell fizzed at an inoppertune moment, granted under this system it can still happen, but at least if that spell that they KOd themselves with was a teleport there is a decent chance they'll survive. Of course given that Attack Spells often have the highest APs they are the ones most likely to cause backlash.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

I Honestly have trouble believing that rolling an 18 is a 1/2% event. I've rolled better then that generating DnD characters.

Rolling a 6 on a d6 is about a 16.6% chance, your chance of rolling a 6 again doesn't change simply because a die was rolled before it, so I think it becomes more likely that your "actual" chance of rolling the same number consectuativly would be divided by the number of times you rolled, in which case you chance of rolling an 18 would be about 5.53, only slighly better then the chance of rolling an 18 on a d20.

 

Yur beliefs notwithstanding the math is quite simple. Each d6 has a 1 in 6 chance of coming up "6". That 1 in 6 chance must be met for each die, so the chaces of all three coming up "6" is 1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6 = 1/216 = just under 0.5%.

 

If you chart out all possible rolls of 3d6, you will find there are 216 of them. Only one is three sixes.

 

With the spell going off in any case, a very powerful spell that will debilitate the wizard for certain but will also solve the problem is the easiest approach to "munchkin" your system. "Teleport, UAA, Area Effect, Selective, Megascale, fixed location" - pull the party out if the going gets too rough.

 

Of course a simple review of the spells proposed and judicious application of the word "NO" is the most effective means of preventing any unbalanced use of any system anyway.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Well, it doesn't seem to work out like that in practice, at least from my experience. which was all I was saying.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Ok, Actually I Retract my earlier statment, I just spent a decent amount of time rolling dice, I roll 3d6 100 times, and not once got an 18 (though I did get a 3 which has the same probility of comming up)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Ok' date=' Actually I Retract my earlier statment, I just spent a decent amount of time rolling dice, I roll 3d6 100 times, and not once got an 18 (though I did get a 3 which has the same probility of comming up)[/quote']

 

A 3 will also come up one time in 216, so you beat the odds getting a 3 or an 18 in 100 rolls (statistically should take 108, but the odds of the first roll being a 3 are the same as the odds of the last roll being an 18).

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Ok, in prep for rev # 9 (8 was clarification on a minor caveat) I've been going over old stuff I had written up for the system.

I've actually been working on this magic system for quite a while and keep ending up with the wrong feel. So perhaps it will help all of my 3 readers to help me by clarifying by intentions in this system.

My primary inspirations for my settings magic are drawn from Full-metal Alchemist (not alchemy itself, but the way they do it), the Iron Kingdoms setting, and a small buttload of fantasy novels who's influence I don't want to deprive casters from partaking of.

 

As-such. I am planning on modifying the "required lims" caveat to say something more along the lines of "minimum of -2 1/2 in Diagrams, or -1/2 in 'spell foci'"

 

Spellfoci would essentially be a piece of equipment, jewlery or clothing which has had a "diagram" already drawn into it. These would simply be handled as "Equipment" built with skills the character possesses,

Mechanicly they would be skill-levels purchased with the apropiate level of Foci, and an SFX limitation for how narrowly they can be applied (-1 for only a specific spell, -3/4 for a narrow group, -1/2 for a medium group, -1/4 for a large group). Naturally the number of levels given would still be limited by the value in limitations applied to them as normal procedures would be, but are otherwise handeled as equipment, and could infact be weapons or armor (thus having other non-related powers attached)

 

the overall SFX will not change too much, the caster is still applying limitations to "coax" energy into a framework, now I am merely requiring that that framework have a physical component.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Also, considering that the requirement above is simply requiring a physical component, I see no reason why the character could have have the same diagrams tatooed on him.

"Spell-foci Tattoo"s would be skill levels tha character paid for, and would follow the normal rules as far as number of levels granted for number of lims. The limitation value of the "tatto" would be -1/4 per Hit location (to a max of +15 (-3 1/4)) and naturally the character could not "reuse" the same location for multiple spells. of course such a device would also be a distinctive feature. though I'm not sure if it would get points for that as it's SFX of the skill levels.

 

Anyway still looking for oppinions, I can do this all day but without some help I'll just end up chasing my own tail like I have been for 8 months.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Revision # 9 up and raring to go.

[Lucius]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

"Magic System Crunch."

 

That sounds so much like something I'd love to have as part of my complete breakfast.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary remarks that what he really NEEDS for breakfast these days is Raisins Detra

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Detra?

 

(another fine post by the Lord Captain!)

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic System Crunch

 

Rev # 10 up, added a clause soe specific instances where "procedural" limitations would be necessary to the SFX of a spell... though I'm not sure it was necessary.

And I removed the outdated examples, I'll have to come up with some that more accuratly portray the system as it stands.