Quick Limitations Question

[Catseye]

First all, Welcome from the East Coast,as I've been relocated to Boston, MA.

 

I miss all you guys even though I havent made the cons for a few years anyway due to job stuff.

 

I'm back to working on my pet Fantasy Hero setting. From con-runs Ive realized I need to add a limitation to my mage spells. Its one of those things I would have thought would be in the book, but I can't find it.

 

The limitation is "Must be used at full power." No cutting back dice on your fireball, etc.

 

What is this? a -1? Opinions? I'd be particularly interested in Steve's opinion as "the man" and killer shrike's opinion as someone who has done work on settings similar to mine.

 

Oh and please don't post "that sucks don't do that" posts. This is *my* setting and I'm going for a specific feel. And yes, mages in this game are a lot more limited then in many other classic fantasy settings.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

This is essentially the Beam Limitation -1/4.

[Catseye]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

Your right, thats close. Probably close enough.

 

Im still learning where things are in the FRED. Splitting limitations up in multiple places mildly confuses me 8)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

This sort of thing is only really a limitation if there are situations in which you would want to use a power at less than full effectiveness. IME that sort of thing rarely happens.

[Catseye]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

In this case its a serious limitation for two reasons:

 

(1) Mages are not allowed to have 0END powers or Endurance Reserves. So END management is a significant issue, particularly in a longer combat.

 

(2) Mages have to make a skill check with nasty side effects on failure. The play-problem I ran into in fact was here. A clever player was dialing down his spells to make them relatively safe to cast but I *want* magic to be dangerous.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

In this case its a serious limitation for two reasons:

 

(1) Mages are not allowed to have 0END powers or Endurance Reserves. So END management is a significant issue, particularly in a longer combat.

 

(2) Mages have to make a skill check with nasty side effects on failure. The play-problem I ran into in fact was here. A clever player was dialing down his spells to make them relatively safe to cast but I *want* magic to be dangerous.

 

 

Limitation synergy is an interesting topic. Personally I'm in two minds: changing a limitation value because of the build of a particular character goes against the 'purity' of the system, and makes limitation values highly subjective BUT for a given campaign, like yours, I see no problem as you KNOW it is always going to be quite a major problem.

 

This is beginning to feel more like a +1/2, assuming everyone needs to take RSR and side effects.

 

OTOH a 2d6 RKA is SOOOOOO much more effective than a 1d6 RKA in Hero because of the way we apply damage, so there are significant advantages to maxing out the power.

 

It is a difficult call, but as a campaign limtiation I'd call -1/2. I wouldn't allow it as a general 'any genre, any build' limitation though.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

Doesn't the -1/2 Spell Limitation include this as well?

[Catseye]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

Where is that, Fantasy hero? (I started this project back under 4th ed and although I have 5th ed FH I haven't had time to really do a detailed study of it.)

 

I see a list in the index for spell(limitation) on page 246 but I don't actually see anything on 246 that matches...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

The -1/2 Spell Limitation is especially vague on exactly what it includes.

 

I've seen people say it includes all kinds of bits - but the pages in FH where the Limitation is referenced mostly talk about ways to work END, and number you can pre-prepare. Nothing about full value or CSLs or any number of other things I've seen mentioned.

 

And it specifically mentions that Spell Limitation can be customized to included what the GM wants. So - it could very well be a part of that Limitation if you wanted it to be. So could a lot of things.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

The so-called "Spell" Limitation is all around pretty weak IMO, and mislabeled.

 

 

That aside, Must Be Used At Full Power is really a spell by spell call IMO. On some Spells its not really limiting at all, or only marginally, and in others its very limiting. For instance, Water Breathing "MBUAFP" is laughable -- its a flat effect, and thus the lim as such is meaningless. On the other hand a 12d6 AoE 0 Range Killing Attack MBUAFP would be very limited (particularly if it lacked Personal Immunity to boot).

 

While it might be tempting to try to arrive at a flat value that can be blanketed, I really think this is a GM's judgment call on a case by case basis.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

The so-called "Spell" Limitation is all around pretty weak IMO, and mislabeled.

 

 

That aside, Must Be Used At Full Power is really a spell by spell call IMO. On some Spells its not really limiting at all, or only marginally, and in others its very limiting. For instance, Water Breathing "MBUAFP" is laughable -- its a flat effect, and thus the lim as such is meaningless. On the other hand a 12d6 AoE 0 Range Killing Attack MBUAFP would be very limited (particularly if it lacked Personal Immunity to boot).

 

While it might be tempting to try to arrive at a flat value that can be blanketed, I really think this is a GM's judgment call on a case by case basis.

 

Personally, I would come up with a few Limitations that all Spells share, but wouldn't ness. be applicable to all Spells equally and leave it as a sort of Sometimes this portion is more of an issue than this portion of the Spell Limitation. Game to game variation.

 

or: I agree.

[Catseye]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

So, I'm a bit lost

 

What is the suggestion, that I lump all the limits on spells in a given magic system together and just call it "spell -1/2" on the basis that some limits will be more limiting then others on any given spell?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

Er.. either/or?

 

A lot depends on how much you want characters to pay for Powers. Spell, to me, is a custom Limitation that doesn't contain any other elements from other Limitations.

 

I would grab the Limitations you want on all your spells and add them up, see what it comes out to and if you're comfortable with that Real Point Cost and the flavor of the Spells use those.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Quick Limitations Question

 

So, I'm a bit lost

 

What is the suggestion, that I lump all the limits on spells in a given magic system together and just call it "spell -1/2" on the basis that some limits will be more limiting then others on any given spell?

 

That's not my suggestion.