Citizen Keen Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I think this is a rules question, but I'm erring on the side of caution and posting it here. Either way, I'd appreciate Steve's feedback. What's the difference between Inherent (an Advantage) and Always On (a Limitation). I was building an Alien race and I stopped to consider this. If I buy Extra Limbs, and they're always there, why pay an extra point (5 * 1 1/4) when I can pay one less point (5 * 3/4)? Or is this just a "If it's good to have it on all the time, it's inherent. If it's bad to have it on all the time, it's Always On" kind of thing? -cK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Re: Inherent vs. Always On Originally posted by Citizen Keen I think this is a rules question, but I'm erring on the side of caution and posting it here. Either way, I'd appreciate Steve's feedback. What's the difference between Inherent (an Advantage) and Always On (a Limitation). I was building an Alien race and I stopped to consider this. If I buy Extra Limbs, and they're always there, why pay an extra point (5 * 1 1/4) when I can pay one less point (5 * 3/4)? Or is this just a "If it's good to have it on all the time, it's inherent. If it's bad to have it on all the time, it's Always On" kind of thing? -cK Inherent powers cannot be suppressed or dispelled since they are a natural function. I wouldn't allow always on in that case unless there was a disadvantage to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Your last question is a good one. I think another good question is: Can somebody with the appropriate power turn this thing off? Someone with the right Drain or Suppress could deprive Cyclops of his always-on eyebeams, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Just to expand upon what the illustrious MisterVimes has stated, Inherent is an Advantage because it makes a power impossible for someone else to turn off. Always On is a Disadvantage because it makes it impossible for the character turn it off, but not for others with Suppress or Dispel to turn off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Just to expand upon what the illustrious MisterVimes has stated, Inherent is an Advantage because it makes a power impossible for someone else to turn off. Always On is a Disadvantage because it makes it impossible for the character turn it off, but not for others with Suppress or Dispel to turn off. And leave it to the illustrious Monolith to word it so well:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Re: Re: Inherent vs. Always On Originally posted by MisterVimes Inherent powers cannot be suppressed or dispelled since they are a natural function. I wouldn't allow always on in that case unless there was a disadvantage to it. I believe a power must be "always on" in order to permit purchase of "inherent". Whether you get a limitation would, of course, depend on whether there's a drawback, but I can't think of many powers where there is no drawback to the inability to shut it down. So, how many characters have purchased Inherent life support? Could be mighty painful if it gets suppressed/dispelled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Inherent vs. Always On Originally posted by Hugh Neilson I believe a power must be "always on" in order to permit purchase of "inherent". Whether you get a limitation would, of course, depend on whether there's a drawback, but I can't think of many powers where there is no drawback to the inability to shut it down. So, how many characters have purchased Inherent life support? Could be mighty painful if it gets suppressed/dispelled... You are correct. "A Persistant Power that is also 'Always on' may be Inherent" (FREd p69). The text seems to imply that. And page 165 says that Inherent "must be already 0 END, Persistent and Always On" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 But I don't need "always on" to be "inherent", right? Like Extra Limbs in Star HERO is Inherent but not Always On. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Citizen Keen But I don't need "always on" to be "inherent", right? Like Extra Limbs in Star HERO is Inherent but not Always On. I didn't think so... but FREd pg. 165 disagrees. It says "MUST be 0 END, Persistant and Always On" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Keen Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 STEVE! Your wrote FREd, and you (co)wrote Star HERO. Fix this! (edit) Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by Citizen Keen STEVE! Your wrote FREd, and you (co)wrote Star HERO. Fix this! (edit) Please. The Extra Limbs you site *are* Always On, they just don't get the Limitation because there is no drawback to not being able to turn them off. An octopus can't makes its tentacles disappear, but it's hardly hampered by them. Conversely, they can't be Dispelled, either (actually, there are circumstances where I would dispute that, but nevermind), so they need to take the Inherent Advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by GamePhil The Extra Limbs you site *are* Always On, they just don't get the Limitation because there is no drawback to not being able to turn them off. An octopus can't makes its tentacles disappear, but it's hardly hampered by them. Star Hero may be different, but to me the fact your extra limbs are always there has a drawback - you're likely to be remembered ("The guy with 8 arms, remember?") The character should either be entitled to the always on limitation, or Distinctive Features ("He had eight arms!"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Originally posted by Hugh Neilson Star Hero may be different, but to me the fact your extra limbs are always there has a drawback - you're likely to be remembered ("The guy with 8 arms, remember?") Star HERO is certainly different. There, you're likely to get the response: "Oh, you mean an Octopoid? I see a dozen of them every day, bud, you're going to have to do better than that." Whether it's distinctive or not depends on the specifics of the campaign. In fact, in some campaigns it wouldn't be worth a Disadvantage at all, while in others it would be a Social Limitation (if Octopoids are second class citizens of the Conglomeration, for example). In any event, I wouldn't call it the Always On Limitation, if only because the drawbacks you're talking about, when they exist, are probably worth more than the 2 point savings of the Limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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