How much of a lim for must assign charges to slots before combat

[Toadmaster]

On a multipower with charges (tank gun) there are three slots (rounds), the number of each slot must be assigned when the tank is reloaded (they are not magical universal rounds) so the player must assign x# of the charges to AP, x# to HE and x# to smoke.

 

I was debating between 1/4 and 1/2, I'd like some opinions.

[Killer Shrike]

Hrm. Interesting Question.

 

If I understand the ?, when the tank leaves the armory it has a finite set of ammo, and the number of each type of round is set. So that on a given day they might take 10 AP, 5 Hi-Ex and 5 AT for 20 total and the next day go 15 AT and 5 Hi-Ex for 20 total, frex.

 

One way to do this might be to build the Main Gun as a very limited VPP (Only change in Armor, Ammo only (-1), OIF Bulky: Main Gun).

 

That way you could switch out specialty rounds like this:

 

Anti Personnel: 2d6 RKA Radius x 2 Conforming Non Selective (+1 1/2); Reduced Penetration (-1/4), X # of Charges: 75 AP, ? RC

 

Anti Tank: 3d6+1 RKA AP (+1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Y # of Charges: 75 AP, ? RC

 

High Explosive: 3d6+1 RKA Explosive (+1/2), Z # of Charges: 75 AP, ? RC

 

The number of charges will reduce the RC, controlling the number of rounds available via the VPP.

[Blue Jogger]

The rule of thumb for limitations

 

0 Limitation -- Not really an issue (except maybe once in a blue moon)

 

-1/4 Limitation -- Not usually an issue, but the GM will use it, maybe 1 game out of four. Compare to other -1/4s like "Only in Hero ID" and "Not in Magnetic Fields", "Activate on 15 or less (95%)"

 

-1/2 Limitation -- Ok, these are problems that are easy to work around, but they are problems. 90% of the time it's not that big of a problem, but 10% is going to be really frustrating. Compare to "Activate on 14 or less (90%)", "No Range", "Costs x2 END"

 

If the rounds are simular in nature, than it's probably only -1/4 since you might use the wrong round, but it's not like blowing a phase.

 

If the rounds are complete different, (Explosive vs. Regular or Rubber vs. Shrapnel) than it's closer to a -1/2, since you can't just use them interchangably with getting into major trouble and you're blowing a phase to either eject the unwanted rounds (one way or another).

Although, it makes for great roleplaying.

 

(First Time) "You want to explain why no one was carrying explosive rounds to use on Firewing?"

(Second Time) "You want to explain why you thought you could use explosive rounds in a crowded area?"

(Third Time) "Boy, do you put any thought into which ammo to use?"

[JMHammer]

Another rule-breaker, but...

 

I'd do this in a very simple way:

 

First, set up the multipower and buy each slot in the multipower so that it has the same cost and the same number of charges. Buy each one as a fixed (ultra) slot. Do not apply any charges limitation or charges advantage to the cost of the multipower reserve.

 

Then, apply a +1/4 advantage to the multipower reserve: Total number of charges in the multipower is equal to the total number of charges of all slots added together, but the allocation of charges to the various slots can only be changed at the "armory" or other base location where rearming can be performed - and rearming takes several minutes.

 

I'd call this an advantage, not a limitation, because without applying this modifier the number of charges of each slot is always fixed, and with this modifier you have some flexibility in setting the number of charges of each slot.

 

John H

[Toadmaster]

I was leaning towards 1/2, because choosing a load out compatible with the mission is important, and the various rounds have vast differances in effect.

 

The idea of putting the limitation of the individual slots looks interesting but seems more complicated not less, maybe I'm reading your idea wrong.

 

Thanks for the comments

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Blue Jogger

If the rounds are complete different, (Explosive vs. Regular or Rubber vs. Shrapnel) than it's closer to a -1/2, since you can't just use them interchangably with getting into major trouble and you're blowing a phase to either eject the unwanted rounds (one way or another).

Although, it makes for great roleplaying.

 

(First Time) "You want to explain why no one was carrying explosive rounds to use on Firewing?"

(Second Time) "You want to explain why you thought you could use explosive rounds in a crowded area?"

(Third Time) "Boy, do you put any thought into which ammo to use?"

 

This reminds me of Kelly's heros when Oddball's Sherman fires a paint round into the back of a Tiger, instead of an AP round.

[Gary]

It's not really a limitation on the multipower reserve itself, but merely on the slots. And if you have a lot of total charges, it probably isn't worth much if any limitation.

 

Assuming the tank can hold 30 shells, just buy 3 slots in the multipower and buy 30 charges for each slot. Then put a -1/4 limitation on each slot that total charges = 30.

 

If you allow a -1/4 limitation on the multipower itself, you get anomalous results. For example, let's take a 2 slot multipower. If the powers are 90 point powers with 30 charges and you allowed the -1/4 limitation on the reserve as well as the slots, the total cost for the multipower would be 90+9+9=108.

 

If you bought just a single attack, the cost would be 112. IOW, you're saving points by having a more useful power! That's why I wouldn't allow the limitation on the reserve.

[Vondy]

I'd go with -1/4

[tesuji]

First off, i would not go with any lim at all unless it was likely to produce a limit in play. For this to be an issue hardly at all, it would need to meet both of the following:

 

1. The total charges must be limiting so that this doesn't turn into "had more than i needed of any of them but preselected how much more at start." You would need to frequently run out of needed ammo.

 

2. the rounds would need to be noiceably different, serving different functions. An example might be an HE round, an Ap round and a gas round. This means that even though you have an attack, it might not be a good choice.

 

When building the power, you would not buy charges for the slots at all.

 

you would use the "charges on the MP option and buy a total set of charges for the MP. Then you would purchase this "set at base" lim on the reserve as well.

 

In my experience with limited change MP, pricing them out at -1/4 is usually correct.

 

So for example...

 

MP 60 ap +1/4 32c for entire MP -1/4 set charges at base = 60 ap

slot-1 8d6 EXP

slot-2 8d6 AP

slot-3 4d6 NND AOE

 

this looks about right at 60 for pool and 18 for slots at 78 ap.

 

if it was 64c on the MP, I probably would set the base lim at -0, unless i foresaw a lot of campaign sessions where he would be unable to reload for long enough to make 21 charges per ammo not sufficient.

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by tesuji

First off, i would not go with any lim at all unless it was likely to produce a limit in play. For this to be an issue hardly at all, it would need to meet both of the following:

 

1. The total charges must be limiting so that this doesn't turn into "had more than i needed of any of them but preselected how much more at start." You would need to frequently run out of needed ammo.

 

2. the rounds would need to be noiceably different, serving different functions. An example might be an HE round, an Ap round and a gas round. This means that even though you have an attack, it might not be a good choice.

 

When building the power, you would not buy charges for the slots at all.

 

you would use the "charges on the MP option and buy a total set of charges for the MP. Then you would purchase this "set at base" lim on the reserve as well.

 

In my experience with limited change MP, pricing them out at -1/4 is usually correct.

 

So for example...

 

MP 60 ap +1/4 32c for entire MP -1/4 set charges at base = 60 ap

slot-1 8d6 EXP

slot-2 8d6 AP

slot-3 4d6 NND AOE

 

this looks about right at 60 for pool and 18 for slots at 78 ap.

 

if it was 64c on the MP, I probably would set the base lim at -0, unless i foresaw a lot of campaign sessions where he would be unable to reload for long enough to make 21 charges per ammo not sufficient.

 

I agree the situation would determine the value, that is true of most of HERO, in a Champions game a Sherman tank having 97 charges (30+ of each type of ammo) would probably not become an issue since reloads are generally going to be available after each fight so I could see a -0 lim, but in a Wartime campaign it would be worth more since it is likely the crew will go through several fights before getting reloads and it is likely the user will be stuck with less ideal rounds before getting back to base (-1/2). So I can see how as a generic lim -1/4 should be reasonable.