Lore Spell

[Dr Divago]

Note: I'm a friend of Dr Divago. I tried to register but it seems that there are some problems with the register image which is not currently displayed. So i'm using his account to post this question.

 

I'm in the middle of converting my ten-year long D&D red box campaign to Hero 5th edition and I got stuck trying to come up with a way to build the wizard Lore spell.

 

For any of you that might not know that spell, it states that the caster receive information (function, usage, command words, characteristics, etc...) about an object he is holding in a time variable from 10 to 40 minutes.

If the spell is cast to investigate something that is not there (a place, a person, an object, etc...), it takes 1d100 days and then it gives general information to the caster. If the thing investigated is something really obscure and/or legendary knowledge may come in the form of a riddle.

 

Then, how do I build such a thing?

Which kind of power may be used to extract information?

I initially thought about a Detect Information, but it just didn't seem the right way to use that power.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Lore Spell

 

I actually think Detect is the right way to go. Maybe Detect Function with Discriminatory. You don't have to worry about range if it is touch only.

[Daemon]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Lore: Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Mystic Group) (40 Active Points); Retrocognition Only (-1), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled (Caster does not get instant answers); -1), No Range (-1/2), Vague and Unclear (-1/2) Real Points: 10

 

Add in whatever advantages you need to simulate spells in your campaign.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Do you mean legend lore? If so: Legend Lore

 

If not, post the full write up from the source and i'll look at it.

[lifo]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Note: I finally managed to subscribe.

 

Do you mean legend lore? If so: Legend Lore

 

If not, post the full write up from the source and i'll look at it.

I was talking about of what probably is the OD&D version of the same spell.

 

Here's how it comes on the Rules Cyclopedia.

 

Lore
Range: 0 (magic-user only)
Duration: Permanent
Effect: Reveals details of 1 item, place, or person
  By means of this spell, the magic-user may
gain knowledge of one item, place, or person. If
the caster holds the item being studied, the spell
takes 1d4 turns to complete, and the magic-user
learns the item's name, method of operation and
command words (if any), and approximate num-
ber of charges (if any, within five of the correct
number).
  If the item has more than one mode of opera-
tion, or more than one command word, only one
function will be revealed for each lore spell used,
and the spell will not even hint that the object
has any other functions.
  If the spell is being used to investigate a place
or person, or an item which the caster is not
holding, the spell may take 1d100 days to com-
plete. A purely legendary topic should require
large amounts of time, and the information
gained may be in the form of a riddle or poem.
The Dungeon Master should reveal only general
details if the place is large, or if the person is of
great power.

Anyway, Daemon solution should work fine to emulate such a spell.

In the end Retrocognition lets you know something about the past of something (even its creation and inception). If it does it by letting you actually view it or making the information appear in your mind is the special effect.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lore Spell

 

In the end Retrocognition lets you know something about the past of something (even is creation and inception). If it does it by letting you actually view it or making the information appear in your mind is the special effect.

 

Retrocognition is a fine solution but what it does is allow you to perceive the past in relation to the object - not necessarily all of it, indexed - so unless you are looking in the right place you might not perceive the information you are after. Of course this could explain why legendary items are harder to read - they have been around longer and there is more history to peruse.

 

To my mind a detect is cleaner though - as John Taber suggested, and as built by Killer Shrike.

 

As with all things, it is a matter of what you want the spell/power/ability to do and how you want it to work. For example, although it is not how the spell works at all, a similar final effect, with a very different feel could be acccomplished by summoning the ghosts of former owners or creators of the object and questioning them.

[Daemon]

Re: Lore Spell

 

That's why I typed Clairsentience as 'Mystic Sense Group'- it's definitely not Normal Sight and not quite Mental.

 

The problem is that the original spell description is not clear enough. It doesn't tell you, for example, if the caster states his request out loud, or needs a material component, or even the format of the answer. It just sort of appears in the caster's head after a period of time.

 

I think that Legend Lore would be better served as a detect. However, Lore is so generalized, what you end up having to do is use something like 'Detect Information'- which is basically just a sense. And that's what Clairsentience emulates, using Senses at a distance. It can be bought with Sense Adders just like Detect, so effectively there's not a lot of difference here. =P

 

Clairsentience already has all the built-in limitations you need, so that's why I used it. Handle all the vagueness in the spell with the concrete limitations you need ( Vague and Unclear, NCC ) and let your SFX do the rest.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Actually, I use clairsentience for some similar effects as well...such as this version of Bardic Knowledge

 

Whichever; more than one way to skin a cat in HERO.

[lifo]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Hmmm... I've changed my mind and I'm trying again with a Detect Information.

 

Just to know, Killer Shrike, how does your Legend Lore manage to cost 72 AP? I wasn't able to figure out.

[dstarfire]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Yeah, a simple detect magic item with discriminatory, and analyze is the way to go.

 

Discriminatory would tell you what the item does, the general school/theme of magic used to create it (divine, necromancy, thaumaturgy, etc.), how many charges it has left (if it uses those), the caster's approximate power level (or at least how much power s/he put into the device), and the like.

 

Analyze would tell you all that as well as the creators name, where they were from, and what they'd had for breakfast the day they created that item.

[Daemon]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Lore and Legend Lore are two similar, but different, spells. You need a wider effect for Lore because it's not just for items.

 

Legend Lore does work better as a detect. Ultimately, it doesn't matter much for something like this- once an effect is defined to the GM and players satisfaction, that is all you really need.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Lore Spell

 

Hmmm... I've changed my mind and I'm trying again with a Detect Information.

 

Just to know, Killer Shrike, how does your Legend Lore manage to cost 72 AP? I wasn't able to figure out.

 

Detect Information about Magic Items 30-:

 

* Properties / Purpose / Usage

* Command Words

* Creator(s)

* Names / Types of Similar Items In Existence

* Noteworthy Former Owners

* Legends, Prophecies, and Rumors Related To Item

 

 

Discriminatory, Analyze, Rapid (x10)

 

 

Each detect costs extra, the roll is high, and the adders cost too.

 

Something like this:

 

Detect A Large Class Of Things, Each Extra Thing or Class of Things, Each Extra Thing or Class of Things, Each Extra Thing or Class of Things, Each Extra Thing or Class of Things, Each Extra Thing or Class of Things and Each Extra Thing or Class of Things 30- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Rapid: x10

 

 

Although, its important to realize that i was also TRYING to get it to cost between 60 and 75 points so it would be a "Level 4" Spell per the design of my Vancian Magic System which works in 15 point AP increments starting from 0 level to 9th level. If I were designing the effect for SOME OTHER Magic System, I would approach it differently (in a way that made sense within the context of that particular Magic System).

[CTaylor]

Re: Lore Spell

 

3 ways I can think of:

 

Detect as people suggest

KS: area or thing built as a spell

Clairsentience with various senses and retrocognition to see and hear the events personally.