prestidigitator Posted August 20, 2008 Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget LOL. I'm not sure my question was really directed at anyone. I think you give me more credit than I am due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget So my next question is: WHY are we using Str instead of the power that is designed to do this (Entangle)? Because Entangle is too expensive? Should we then be asking if Entangle is overcosted? Should the cost of Entangle be based on some kind of modified Str? Maybe with Body or a freaky End or Ablative type part thrown in and the base Str Linked to it so when the flaky part goes down it all crumbles? Personaly for me it is not so much the cost of Entangle but the way heavily limited powers work in MP (Or in another way of saying it is that the Active Points but not the real points are out of whack for this effect). something I have already petitioned in the 6th edition forums. Also this started as an intelectual exersice in building the effect so that it can fit in a (what I consider) standard 30 point MP, plus I like to play with what you can do on limited points (The whole can you destroy the world on 2 points type of thing). As a GM I look at the game effect of any ability to decide on wether or not it is abusive, so while I might allow this kind of build for a intended after combat tie up the bad guy type of power (If I even made the character pay for it), I would have a problem with using it for a more combat useful ability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget So my next question is: WHY are we using Str instead of the power that is designed to do this (Entangle)? Because Entangle is too expensive? Should we then be asking if Entangle is overcosted? Should the cost of Entangle be based on some kind of modified Str? Maybe with Body or a freaky End or Ablative type part thrown in and the base Str Linked to it so when the flaky part goes down it all crumbles? Well I don't think entangle is designed to do this. I think it was designed to do spiderman webs way back in the 1980s and has not changed much since. I think it is a couple of powers (at least) crammed together because it is simulating a package of abilities (spiderman webs) and I think we are still using it in the original form because of inertia. And STR just works better. It divorces the force you use to break free from a damage calculation. It is far more finely tuneable, if that is important to you, and it doesn't create an effect you need a special rule or a handwave to turn on and off. I don't care if the rules do say this is OK based on SFX, it contradicts the principles of instant effect powers, and that rings an alarm bell to me - it is something that needs changing. Just to clarify I was not suggesting the handcuff build would add to base strength - it is completely independent strength you can use to attach two things together. using base strength would give very odd results - the stronger the person snapping the cuffs on, the more effective they are. That is daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget A touch of insomnia led me to actually plonk a few numbers into Hero Designer. Is it utter madness? You tell me... I built an automaton with the following Characteristics: Body 3 PD 3 ED 3 SPD 1 All else at 0 Total: -131 points This Skill: +3 with DCV (to reflect their small size) Total: 15 points These Powers: Damage Resistance (3/3) +45 STR at 0 END 47 points worth of Life Support to reflect being an inanimate object takes no STUN (loses abilities if takes BODY) Total: 168 points These Disadvantages: Physical Limitation: Nothing but a pair of handcuffs. Capable only of grabbing and releasing. Physical Limitation: Lacks all sense organs Physical Limitation: Utterly under the command of the person who has the key. (worth zero points) Total: 50 points Although the automaton handcuffs cost a mere 52 points and have 50 points worth of Disadvantages, it seems unlikely that any GM would allow them to be taken as a 2 Base Points Follower. Let's go with 50 Base Points. Buy these Handcuffs (actually an Automaton) as a Follower for 10 points. Or, if you prefer, Summon them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maur Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget Although the automaton handcuffs cost a mere 52 points and have 50 points worth of Disadvantages, it seems unlikely that any GM would allow them to be taken as a 2 Base Points Follower. Let's go with 50 Base Points. Buy these Handcuffs (actually an Automaton) as a Follower for 10 points. Or, if you prefer, Summon them. And if you're knocked unconscious, then no one else in your group can get the handcuffs if they lack the summon power or the follower... hmm, doesn't quite seem to match up with them as a piece of equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget A touch of insomnia led me to actually plonk a few numbers into Hero Designer. Is it utter madness? You tell me... ...................... Yes. But it is a goooood madness Technically this build allows you to drain the little blighter's life support and suffocate the handcuffs to death. What a lovely idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget And if you're knocked unconscious' date=' then no one else in your group can get the handcuffs if they lack the summon power or the follower... hmm, doesn't quite seem to match up with them as a piece of equipment.[/quote'] Nonsense. Your followers don't just stand around refusing to do anything when you're knocked out. In this case, your friends just need the key. The automaton must follow the orders of whomever holds the key. 'Course it can't hear instructions. You have to have the key and physically move the automaton into "grab" or "release" mode. Just like handcuffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maur Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget provided your followers are there or that you performed your summons before getting knocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted August 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget provided your followers are there or that you performed your summons before getting knocked out. you build them as a summons then, with the belt being an OIF: universal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget provided your followers are there or that you performed your summons before getting knocked out. That's common sense, right? If your character doesn't remember to bring his handcuffs, his companions can't use them. This is exactly the same as a focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget All right. All right. Someone's brought in Automatons AND Summon. All we need now is the Godwin's Law of the Hero System discussion forums: Transform. Wait, did someone already bring that up? Not that it's an altogether uninteresting suggestion exactly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted August 22, 2008 Report Share Posted August 22, 2008 Re: Handcuffs on a budget All right. All right. Someone's brought in Automatons AND Summon. All we need now is the Godwin's Law of the Hero System discussion forums: Transform. Wait, did someone already bring that up? Not that it's an altogether uninteresting suggestion exactly.... ...or you could EDM into a universe where the person you wish to restrian is wearing handcuffs. And, you know, rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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