Particle Beam

[The Main Man]

Having used my wikido, I'm not sure about how to model particle beams, and I also am just not particularly satisfied with the Star HERO write-up.

 

Right now, I am thinking of a large RKA with a 1 Turn Gradual Effect that makes the target explode if continually attacked beyond 0 BODY, doing damage equal to the attack's maximum damage.

 

For example, if a Particle Beam gun did, say, RKA 8d6 over the course of 1 turn, the target reaches 0 BODY before it's finished, but the attacker continues to use the attack, then the target is at the epicenter of an RKA 8d6 Explosion (this could possibly be changed to an EB).

 

So does anyone have any thoughts, comments, advice, ideas?

[Nyrath]

Re: Particle Beam

 

From my research in space war, the major difference between a laser strike and a particle beam strike is that the laser deposits its destructive energy on the surface of the target, while a particle beam actually penetrates a little bit which deposits its destructive energy inside the target. Note we are talking penetration measured in millimeters to centimeters.

 

So from my standpoint particle beams would have the piercing advantage or something like that.

 

This of course has nothing to do with the Star Hero write up, I just thought I'd throw it out for your consideration.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Yeah, build it as a Penetrating Continuous RKA, then build a second linked Naked Modifier: Explosion.

 

Something like:

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Penetrating (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (75 Active Points);

Naked Modifier: Explosion (+1/2) for up to 75 Active Points, Trigger (Activating the Trigger 
is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, 
Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +3/4) (65 Active Points); 
Linked (???; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -3/4)

 

Edit: I tried to add a trigger to the Naked Modifier and HERO Designer v3 crashed. In fact, it is still crashing, won't close, opening Process Explorer now... le sigh.

 

Edit 2: There we go.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Particle Beam

 

I would also think any EM Deflectors or Force Fields would be more effective against particle beams. But I'm not 100% sure I can explain why I think that, just kind of a hunch from all the factoids rattling about my skull.

[The Main Man]

Re: Particle Beam

 

I will say that I agree with the "not working in a vacuum /water" part of the Star HERO writeup, since a vacuum does not provide any particles to accelerate and water (or any liquid really) is too dense to reliably move any particles like in a gas.

 

I did think of a Naked Explosion though, but wasn't sure how to implement it, even though Trigger is kind of a dead ringer now that it was mentioned.

 

I'm thinking of hammering out the math and coming up with a possible new Advantage called "Particle Beam," which would be similar to how different SFX can have certain extenuating effects from TUEP.

 

I'm also pondering how to build the Charges: Continuing, or normal?

 

Knowing that it affects the internal structure of an object, I think that it easily qualifies as having the Penetrating Advantage in addition to some Piercing (which I argue qualifies for Lasers too, but that is neither here nor there right now IMO).

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Cost on Charges should balance out either way. They either blow one charge per phase, or one continuing charge per X phases/turns.

 

Keep in mind Continuing charges will suffer should a target be destroyed before the charge's time runs out.

 

And a particle beam should work in a vacuum so long as the particles are supplied by the weapon and properly condensed or focused. I mean, if gamma ray bursts from distant stars can theoretically destroy all life on earth -- I read it somewhere so it must be true -- then a particle weapon fired in space should be able to deliver a blow to a target in space.

[The Main Man]

Re: Particle Beam

 

I'm thinking that Normal Charges would be the superior choice because the explosion of a target mechanically (and IMO of course) depends on the target reaching 0 BODY or less, which is independant of a Continuing Charge, however, I might still settle for the Continuous Advantage so that a particle beam can keep steady on a target.

 

Now how to make a connection between keeping a steady attack on a target and making them eventually explode?

 

Right now, I am thinking of the Proton packs from Ghostbusters (without the TK), which did in fact explode targets which were usually household objects which would have little BODY to begin with.

 

I'm also starting to think about the degrees of difference there would be, if any, between an Electron, Positron, Proton, and a Neutron Accelerator.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Particle Beam

 

The main difference I can think of would be what type of defense(s) they may or may not work (better, worse, or at all...) against.

 

Kind of hints at Trek Shield Modulation and such.

[ajackson]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Okay, an electron beam weapon (charged particle beam) is only useful in atmosphere, and I've typically called it a penetrating RKA where LS(radiation) blocks the penetrating effect. A linked NND does body also works. A neutral ion beam is only useful in space and in its most obvious application is just an NND does body vs LS(Radiation), possibly with some more complex effects so it kills you over a period of hours to days rather than instantly, and generally area effect. If the beam is focused to a tight beam (hard to do without magitech) it functions basically the same way as the electron beam weapon.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Transform: Target to Radioactive Target With Cancer

[Nyrath]

Re: Particle Beam

 

I'm also starting to think about the degrees of difference there would be' date=' if any, between an Electron, Positron, Proton, and a Neutron Accelerator.[/quote']

Well, on the one hand, the first three can be defended against by using powerful electrostatic fields, since they are charged particles. Neutrons are uncharged, so are unaffected by such fields.

 

On the other hand, the weapon has to have some method of accelerating the neutrons in the first place. So whatever the weapon uses, can also be used as a defense.

[The Main Man]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Okay, so it might possibly mean that they could be built with something like AVLD (ED Force Field) and Does BODY?

 

Or maybe that should be NND?

[ajackson]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Or maybe that should be NND?

Against anything with radiation shielding, it's just damage.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Couldn't you accelerate charged particles and neutralize them on the way out?

[Hierax]

Re: Particle Beam

 

There was the old Neutron Blaster thing from 4th ed. Star Hero. Loved that one!

 

The particles passed harmlessly through non- or lightly-armored characters but when slowed down by heavy-armor they packed a punch (NND vs. high rDEF, IIRC) -- perfect for the non-lightly armored Star Wars Rebel Scum Skirmishers fighting heavily armed Stormtroopers, no worries about friendly fire.

[ajackson]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Couldn't you accelerate charged particles and neutralize them on the way out?

Yes, but that's a neutral atom beam, not a neutron beam.

[Nyrath]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Couldn't you accelerate charged particles and neutralize them on the way out?

Not really.

 

If you accelerated protons then sprayed electrons into the beam, the electrons would get left behind. If you accelerated protons and accelerated electrons and mixed the beams, the beam as a whole would be neutral, but when it hit an electrostatic shield, the protons would spiral right and the electrons would spiral left.

 

What you want to do is accelerate protons then magically turn them into neutrons, but there doesn't seem to be any good way to do that.

 

I saw one crude method that slammed a proton beam into some dense material. It turned a powerful proton beam into a pathetically weak neutron beam, made a mess out of the dense material. It was basically colliding the protons with neutrons, which kicked the neutrons out of the material.

[Hierax]

Re: Particle Beam

 

So is there any scientific basis to the Fast Neutron from Star Hero or is it pure fantasy?

[Nyrath]

Re: Particle Beam

 

So is there any scientific basis to the Fast Neutron from Star Hero or is it pure fantasy?

Well, maybe I spoke too soon.

 

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/npb.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon#Beam_generation

[GreyGuardian]

Re: Particle Beam

 

And then there is this -

 

Berkeley Lab Targets 1 Meter Long 10 GeV laser based Table top Particle Accelerator for 2013

 

I'm not sure why you would think a particle beam would work better in atmosphere unless you are counting on it creating a plasma in air to deliver the energy as a heat blast. Vacuum would allow longer range for a particle beam weapon - air would interact with the particles and dissipate energy before the target is reached.

 

And there's always Danger Room Blog - Lasers and Ray guns tag

 

Regarding a source of neutrons - Fusion using deuterium and tritium as fuel... of course collimating the beam and shielding personnel from the neutrons is going to require a lot of mass.

 

Regarding modeling a particle beam in hero - it's an RKA - probably armor piercing covers it. If you wanted a photon weapon (x rays or gamma rays) then you might add penetrating... Isn't this is covered in Ultimate energy projector?

[The Main Man]

Re: Particle Beam

 

Don't have it on hand, but IIRC they do cover lasers in the light powers, but I do not remember Particle Beams being covered anywhere.

[ajackson]

Re: Particle Beam

 

I'm not sure why you would think a particle beam would work better in atmosphere unless you are counting on it creating a plasma in air to deliver the energy as a heat blast.

In theory, a particle beam can generate a plasma sheath that causes a high current charged beam to remain collimated. In practice, I don't believe this has been successfully demonstrated in a configuration that might be useful as a weapon.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Particle Beam

 

What you want to do is accelerate protons then magically turn them into neutrons' date=' but there doesn't seem to be any good way to do that.[/quote']

 

You can turn protons into neutrons through electron capture.