Time Limit

[Sean Waters]

Now it might just be me, but this seems a bit, well, generous...

 

You chant and gesture for a phase, you become protected for a full minute, and a 60 point power costs you 15 real:

 

Resistant Protection (20 PD/20 ED) (60 Active Points); Time Limit (1 Minute; -2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

Given that few Hero battles ever last anything LIKE a minute, I'm not sure the modifier value works.

 

Thoughts?

[Daltwisney]

Re: Time Limit

 

Now it might just be me, but this seems a bit, well, generous...

 

You chant and gesture for a phase, you become protected for a full minute, and a 60 point power costs you 15 real:

 

Resistant Protection (20 PD/20 ED) (60 Active Points); Time Limit (1 Minute; -2), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

Given that few Hero battles ever last anything LIKE a minute, I'm not sure the modifier value works.

 

Thoughts?

 

1) This 'seems' to me to represent a sorcery/mysticism style of power, and with the Gestures and Incantation limitations, would fall back into the Heroic genre, where most real armor struggles to get past 10 Defense. So I think you are seeing an artificial inflation by raising the PD/ED values to that level. At 10 PD/10 ED (30 Active), this drops to 7 pts, cheap, but not unheard of for FH style spells.

 

2) Your closing comment pretty much sums up what I would cite as my reason for disallowing this as written in most Superheroic games. If combat never lasts a minute, a combat power that requires a single phase to activate and never runs the risk of running out in combat is not really limited.

 

The freedom of the Hero System has always allowed players to manipulate the numbers in ways that seem abusive. It's up to the players AND the GM to make sure that the results fit into the game being run.

[torchwolf]

Re: Time Limit

 

True, comparable 5ER value for 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Minute was -1 (5ER p286). Value of -2 seems a bit generous. You're on to something here.

Incidentally, I've had a combat lasting for 2 min 7 seconds, involving 49 superbeings and 12 agents. High body count. But this was a rarity - given that many fights don't last much more than a turn or two, the Limitation values over a Turn should really give rather diminishing results.

 

These were thoughts.

[EverKnight]

Re: Time Limit

 

It does seem to be rather generous doesn't it. Even if you only want to save a few points then I bet most characters could get away with slapping Time Limit (1 day; -1/4) on all of their persistent powers without worrying. Then we'll end up with a world where the morning ritual will be: wake up, turn on persistent powers, not worry about them for the rest of the day. GMs will then be plotting about how their villains are plotting to attack the heroes on the day they sleep in late, when their powers have switched off and they haven;t had a chance to activate them again, just to justify the value of the limitation.

 

I can see that it might work better if there was a set time the power turned off, e.g. midnight, but even then the ease of turning the power back on means it's still not very limiting.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Time Limit

 

Dispel seems an easy way of making the character earn the points saved.

 

I would have liked to see Continuing Charges removed in favour of consistency with Time Limit myself. Ignoring other advantages or limitations, if 1 continuing charge, 1 minute is a -1 limitation (60 AP, 30 RP), then this would become Time Limit 1 Minute (+1/2), 1 charge (-2) for the same 30 RP, but now it's 90 AP.

 

Of course, now the problem is that it costs a +1/2 advantage for the power to last 1 minute, and only +1/4 to make it Persistent so it can last indefinitely.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Time Limit

 

Dispel seems an easy way of making the character earn the points saved.

 

I would have liked to see Continuing Charges removed in favour of consistency with Time Limit myself. Ignoring other advantages or limitations, if 1 continuing charge, 1 minute is a -1 limitation (60 AP, 30 RP), then this would become Time Limit 1 Minute (+1/2), 1 charge (-2) for the same 30 RP, but now it's 90 AP.

 

Of course, now the problem is that it costs a +1/2 advantage for the power to last 1 minute, and only +1/4 to make it Persistent so it can last indefinitely.

 

 

I've been thinking about this a bit: Charges and Time Limit do different things in that, with charges, you can use the power a set number of times in a given period, whereas with Time Limit you can use it as often as you like, unless the GM rules otherwise. Whilst it is true that Dispel can be a PITA for Time Limit powers, that is ONLY because they are supposed to by built with activation limitations as well - so a Time Limit power is no more 'susceptible' to Dispel than the same power (with activation limitations) without Time Limit.

 

I'd like to see charges simply work as a number of activations per day. In fact I'd possibly even change the 'per day so that, for a reduction in limitation value, you could replenish charges between scenes (meaning you could run out of ammo in your shoot out in the morning but could go get some more for your lunchtime shoot out - similar but different to recoverable charges).

 

Then the 'continuing' element is done by buying the power as constant, or with Time Limit. Also taking 'charges', in my little world, would not remove the END cost of a power - why should it? Not all powers that take 'Charges' cost END, so why should it be more attractive as a limitation for some powers than others?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Time Limit

 

It does seem to be rather generous doesn't it. Even if you only want to save a few points then I bet most characters could get away with slapping Time Limit (1 day; -1/4) on all of their persistent powers without worrying. Then we'll end up with a world where the morning ritual will be: wake up, turn on persistent powers, not worry about them for the rest of the day. GMs will then be plotting about how their villains are plotting to attack the heroes on the day they sleep in late, when their powers have switched off and they haven;t had a chance to activate them again, just to justify the value of the limitation.

 

I can see that it might work better if there was a set time the power turned off, e.g. midnight, but even then the ease of turning the power back on means it's still not very limiting.

 

Dawn Raid!

[Daltwisney]

Re: Time Limit

 

Looking at some more numbers with this, I had a few other observations.

 

Once the Extra Time to activate the Power extends to a Turn or more, the effect of Time Limit becomes much less drastic. In that vein, I would most likely consider versions using Extra Time (Full Phase) to be encompassed in the "If a character can activate the power quickly and easily", and reduce the value of Time Limit accordingly.

 

A construct like this still looks like a Magical ritual, or perhaps some sort of Mystic meditation (So I would probably throw Concentration in as well), and as such I think Time Limit serves the same function as Continuing Charges here, but CC doesn't have the same flavor, even if it is mechanically similar.