A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

[mayapuppies]

Hello all,

 

I am building a pretty complex Compund Power that incorporates a Summon, an Entangle and a Suppress. The concept involves the caster creating a summoning circle that has the entangle and suppress built into it.

 

Once the critter is summoned, the entangle is triggered, locking the critter in the circle, then the suppress triggers each phase draining the critters "spell-like" abilities so that the world around it isn't warped by its influence.

 

The Suppress must drain END from the caster and must last until he is able to complete the Binding Ritual (Approximately an hour) which will be a Transform that I haven't built yet.

 

Now, the Suppress is where I am stuck, or more specifically the Trigger. How would I build the Trigger so that it operates as i describe above?

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Here's what I have thus far

Summoning Circle: (Total: 334 Active Cost, 57 Real Cost) Summon 300-point Spirit, Expanded Class of Beings (Limited Group; Spirits; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (120 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/4), Antagonistic Violent (-3/4), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20)

plus Entangle 6d6, 3 PD/8 ED, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; When Summoned Spirit Arrives; +1/4), Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2) (144 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power (Only Works On Spirits; -2), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4) (Real Cost: 18)

plus Drain Spirit Powers 2d6, Constant (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Spirit In AOE; +1/2), Expanded Effect (x2 Powers simultaneously) (+1/2) (70 Active Points); Limited Power Power Only Works On Spirits (-1), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), No Range (-1/2) (Real Cost: 19)

[Kristopher]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

If the caster has to continue to pay END, isn't the Supress simply Continuous, or am I missing something?

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

I believe you're right, but I can't find Continuous in HD 6E. So I think Continuous, I believe, is represented by the "Costs END (to maintain)" Lim.

 

Which would mean the "Constant" is redundant, yes?

 

This is why I ask for help on these...heh

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

I believe you're right, but I can't find Continuous in HD 6E. So I think Continuous, I believe, is represented by the "Costs END (to maintain)" Lim.

 

Which would mean the "Constant" is redundant, yes?

 

This is why I ask for help on these...heh

In 6E, "Suppress" is defined as Drain with Costs Endurance to Maintain (-1/2). It is considered a Constant Power, so adding Constant is indeed redundant.

 

One issue I would point out, is that a 2d6 Suppress is unlikely to accomplish much with a single application. Suppress (and Drain) are considered cumulative with themselves, but require multiple applications of the power to do so, with each application costing END separately. So you may need to 'cast' the Suppress repeatedly over several successive phases to get the effect level you want, and maintaining that for an hour with only Post-12 recoveries could become problematic.

 

I would suggest reworking the Entangle as well, replacing the "1 charge which never recovers" with an Expendable Focus. As written, you can only EVER use the Entangle once, while I think you mean for it to be only used once for any particular Summoning Circle. Since the Summing Circle takes a day to activate, you could go with 1 charge/day, with an Expendable Focus OTHER than the Summoning Circle itself (Powdered Ruby, Holy Water, Used Kleenex), representing that you COULD perform the Summoning without the Restraining Ritual (though that is generally considered unwise), but can only use it once per Circle. The reasoning behind this would be that since an Expendable Focus is gone once you use it, you would no longer be able to 'cast' the Suppress (or at the least would only be able to cast it once), since the Circle would be gone.

 

Another issue with putting it on a Trigger like that is that it will continue to 'cast' each phase for that hour. Even if the caster does not maintain every casting (all powers are completely Suppressed), because he does not control the activation of the Trigger, he will pay END to activate an extra time every phase (equivalent to saying that if it takes 5 maintained applications of the Suppress to fully reduce the Spirit's powers, he'll be paying for 6 applications every phase for an hour). You should probably make it a 0 Phase Action that he DOES control, so he can choose to add more Suppress if needed.

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Ok, so I just got done typing this huge response and I hit the wrong button, deleting it all.

In 6E' date=' "Suppress" is defined as Drain with Costs Endurance to Maintain (-1/2). It is considered a Constant Power, so adding Constant is indeed redundant.[/quote']

ok, cool, removed.

 

One issue I would point out, is that a 2d6 Suppress is unlikely to accomplish much with a single application. Suppress (and Drain) are considered cumulative with themselves, but require multiple applications of the power to do so, with each application costing END separately. So you may need to 'cast' the Suppress repeatedly over several successive phases to get the effect level you want, and maintaining that for an hour with only Post-12 recoveries could become problematic.

 

Another issue with putting it on a Trigger like that is that it will continue to 'cast' each phase for that hour. Even if the caster does not maintain every casting (all powers are completely Suppressed), because he does not control the activation of the Trigger, he will pay END to activate an extra time every phase (equivalent to saying that if it takes 5 maintained applications of the Suppress to fully reduce the Spirit's powers, he'll be paying for 6 applications every phase for an hour). You should probably make it a 0 Phase Action that he DOES control, so he can choose to add more Suppress if needed.

This actually, sounds exactly the way I intended it. So, I think that's a good thing.

 

I would suggest reworking the Entangle as well, replacing the "1 charge which never recovers" with an Expendable Focus. As written, you can only EVER use the Entangle once, while I think you mean for it to be only used once for any particular Summoning Circle. Since the Summing Circle takes a day to activate, you could go with 1 charge/day, with an Expendable Focus OTHER than the Summoning Circle itself (Powdered Ruby, Holy Water, Used Kleenex), representing that you COULD perform the Summoning without the Restraining Ritual (though that is generally considered unwise), but can only use it once per Circle. The reasoning behind this would be that since an Expendable Focus is gone once you use it, you would no longer be able to 'cast' the Suppress (or at the least would only be able to cast it once), since the Circle would be gone.

So I see them as a single spell, which means I should probably link them as well. I don't see the spells as separate.

 

Here's how I see the summoning happen:

 

First, magic is very difficult and rare in this world.

Second, all spirits have an MP that they use to represent their abilities and a Transform or Mind Control that transforms the area around them into what they represent, so a Spirit of Anger would mind control everyone around them into an angry mob, a spirit of water would begin transforming everything around them into water. This Aura is slow, constant, cumulative and non-selective.

Third, Spirit Binders must transform a spirit into a "bound" spirit in order to control them.

 

So, with that in mind:

 

The mage spends all day preping the circle and at the end of the 24 hours begins casting the actual summoning. Once the spirit appears, the entangle goes off, hopefully trapping the spirit. The suppress goes off for the first time, sapping the spirits energy to slowly reduce the effects of the Spirits MP and Aura.

 

The mage then begins casting the Binding spell, a 1d6 Transform.

 

Every one of the mages phases are used to re-cast the Transform and expend the END for the uncontrolled automatic re-casting of the Suppress. The mage is in a race against time to get the Spirit under control before he passes out, is transformed himself or the spirit breaks free.

 

Does my build represent that?

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Ok' date=' so I just got done typing this huge response and I hit the wrong button, deleting it all. [/quote']

 

Always the high point of any day. You notice how it's always the long posts or replies that this happens to? Seems it can never be the simple 'me too' or veiled 'I think you're an idiot' troll post.

 

Here's how I see the summoning happen:

 

First, magic is very difficult and rare in this world.

Second, all spirits have an MP that they use to represent their abilities and a Transform or Mind Control that transforms the area around them into what they represent, so a Spirit of Anger would mind control everyone around them into an angry mob, a spirit of water would begin transforming everything around them into water. This Aura is slow, constant, cumulative and non-selective.

Third, Spirit Binders must transform a spirit into a "bound" spirit in order to control them.

 

So, with that in mind:

 

The mage spends all day preping the circle and at the end of the 24 hours begins casting the actual summoning. Once the spirit appears, the entangle goes off, hopefully trapping the spirit. The suppress goes off for the first time, sapping the spirits energy to slowly reduce the effects of the Spirits MP and Aura.

 

The mage then begins casting the Binding spell, a 1d6 Transform.

 

Every one of the mages phases are used to re-cast the Transform and expend the END for the uncontrolled automatic re-casting of the Suppress. The mage is in a race against time to get the Spirit under control before he passes out, is transformed himself or the spirit breaks free.

 

Does my build represent that?

That is the impression I get when I read into it, yes. I'm still concerned about the END issue, if you are maintaining 5 instances of the Suppress for example, that is ~30 END a phase without taking the Transform into account. If the Binding Ritual does indeed take an hour to complete (which is ALOT of transform castings, even at 1d6 or 1/2d6) I don't see anyone short of a deity having those sorts of END reserves.

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Always the high point of any day. You notice how it's always the long posts or replies that this happens to? Seems it can never be the simple 'me too' or veiled 'I think you're an idiot' troll post.

And how!

 

That is the impression I get when I read into it, yes. I'm still concerned about the END issue, if you are maintaining 5 instances of the Suppress for example, that is ~30 END a phase without taking the Transform into account. If the Binding Ritual does indeed take an hour to complete (which is A LOT of transform castings, even at 1d6 or 1/2d6) I don't see anyone short of a deity having those sorts of END reserves.

Ok, very cool, then I am successful! As to the hour time-line, that was just an arbitrary number I threw out there in the initial post. As I waited for responses I continued to work on the Binding aspect of the process and came to the 1d6 Transform method. Considering an average BODY of 15 for the Spirit, that hour seems like a HUGE over estimate.

 

Even so, there is a an "Energize spell" available for the ritual caster to have his assistants cast on him to assist. But finding assistants is a bit difficult for the adventuring spell binder......so summoning new spirits to bind while out adventuring is not the wisest of choices.

 

Thanks for your help there, BTW.

 

Here's the "final?" build:

 

Summoning Circle: (Total: 307 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) Summon 295-point Spirit, Expanded Class of Beings (Limited Group; Spirits; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (118 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/4), Antagonistic Violent (-3/4), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20)

plus Entangle 6d6, 3 PD/3 ED, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; When Summoned Spirit Arrives; +1/4), Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2) (124 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power (Only Works On Spirits; -2), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Linked (Summon; -1/4) (Real Cost: 15)

plus Drain Spirit Powers and Spirit Aura 2d6, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Spirit In AOE; +1/2), Expanded Effect (x2 Powers simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); Limited Power Power Only Works On Spirits (-1), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Summon; -1/2) (Real Cost: 15)

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Here's the "final?" build: Summoning Circle: (Total: 307 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) Summon 295-point Spirit, Expanded Class of Beings (Limited Group; Spirits; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (118 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -2 1/4), Antagonistic Violent (-3/4), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4) (Real Cost: 20)

plus Entangle 6d6, 3 PD/3 ED, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; When Summoned Spirit Arrives; +1/4), Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2) (124 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power (Only Works On Spirits; -2), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Linked (Summon; -1/4) (Real Cost: 15)

plus Drain Spirit Powers and Spirit Aura 2d6, Alternate Combat Value (uses OMCV against DMCV; +1/4), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect (5m Radius; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Spirit In AOE; +1/2), Expanded Effect (x2 Powers simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); Limited Power Power Only Works On Spirits (-1), OIF Arrangement (Summoning Circle; -3/4), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Linked (Summon; -1/2) (Real Cost: 15)

 

I still have a problem with the '1 Charge which never recovers'. It pretty much means that once you've used the power, you have to buy it again to recast it. The limitation works well for items such as Scrolls or Potions, or perhaps something like a Fire Elemental which explodes upon death, but for a Character to spend 15 points every time they want to be able to cast this spell seems like a recipe for unhappy Players. Maybe I'm reading into it wrong, but I think the implication is that any particular Summoning Circle only contains enough power to trap a single spirit a single time, I don't think this limitation provides that. Too bad we don't have any other opinions...

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

...Maybe I'm reading into it wrong' date=' but I think the implication is that any particular Summoning Circle only contains enough power to trap a single spirit a single time, I don't think this limitation provides that. Too bad we don't have any other opinions...[/quote']

That is the correct implication. I'd love to hear other input as well.

 

But, yes the goal is to have the circle only be able to trap a single spirit at a time and then have to be redrawn. The players don't have to re-buy the spell every-time.

[torchwolf]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

That is the correct implication. I'd love to hear other input as well.

 

But, yes the goal is to have the circle only be able to trap a single spirit at a time and then have to be redrawn. The players don't have to re-buy the spell every-time.

Depending on how often this circle could be cast, the 1 Charge (-2) Limitation might reasonable be applied to both the Summon and the Entangle.

If the imprisoning properties of the circle (Entangle) only hold enough energy to hold a single spirit at a single time, couldn't that be represented by adding Expendable to the OIF Arrangement for the Entangle (and possibly also to the Summon) ?

[Kristopher]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Not looking at the book at the moment, but 5E has "arrangement" and mobility limits on the Focus limitation, and a charge can be made Difficult to recover.

 

I think simply having the most complex and unwieldy Focus setup possible would represent the spell, without needed Charges.

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Depending on how often this circle could be cast, the 1 Charge (-2) Limitation might reasonable be applied to both the Summon and the Entangle.

If the imprisoning properties of the circle (Entangle) only hold enough energy to hold a single spirit at a single time, couldn't that be represented by adding Expendable to the OIF Arrangement for the Entangle (and possibly also to the Summon) ?

 

This is kind of what I was suggesting earlier, though upon further reflection, I think I can clarify it some. I think the 1 Charge (-2) works well here, especially if you include "Charge only recovers as a result of scribing a new Circle". Adding some form of 'Difficult to recover' would not be out of line, as magic is supposed to be Rare, and thus could require some effort to replenish the materials used.

 

As for Expendable, I think that is perfect here, and works well if you think about the Focus like this: As an Arrangement, it is easy to envision this consisting of multiple components, ie the material(s) the circle is drawn with (blood, chalk, sand), maybe some candles or incense, etc., all of which make up the complete Focus. All of the parts are necessary to initiate the Summoning, but parts of it are Expendable to power the one time effects, such as the Entangle and the Summon, but the non-Expendable parts remain to Power the Suppression Field.

 

Once the Ritual is complete or abandoned, the caster could gather any re-usable parts of the Circle, but would have to re-initiate the spell and redraw the Circle (including replacing any consumed materials) before they could use it again.

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

So are we talking about adding/making the Summoning and Entangle have 1 Charge and OIF (Arrangement + Expendable)?

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Not looking at the book at the moment, but 5E has "arrangement" and mobility limits on the Focus limitation, and a charge can be made Difficult to recover.

 

I think simply having the most complex and unwieldy Focus setup possible would represent the spell, without needed Charges.

 

Mostly the same in 6E.

 

The mobility options for a Focus fall into 4 categories:

1) Standard Focus - can be carried and used easily

2) Bulky - may require 2 hands, usually unbalanced. Character is at 1/2 DCV.

3) Immobile - the Focus exists in one spot. Period.

4) Arrangement - the Focus exists in one spot, and takes time to set up. It can be moved, but must be set up again before it can be used.

 

While you may be able to build this without Charges, using Charges is reasonable and makes sense, so applying them to lower the cost is not superfluous. 4 out of 5 Wizards agree: "The cheaper spell is the best spell". (The 5th Wizard was interrupted while binding a Spirit of Babbling Idiocy, and now just sits in the remains of his Circle drooling).

[Daltwisney]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

So are we talking about adding/making the Summoning and Entangle have 1 Charge and OIF (Arrangement + Expendable)?

Exactly, 1 Charge (recovers when Circle is redrawn), OIF Arrangement + Expendable

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

(The 5th Wizard was interrupted while binding a Spirit of Babbling Idiocy' date=' and now just sits in the remains of his Circle drooling).[/quote']

I'm so looking forward to teh first PC spirit binder to end up like this...

[mayapuppies]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

Exactly' date=' 1 Charge (recovers when Circle is redrawn), OIF Arrangement + Expendable[/quote']

You people rock. Thank you

[Kristopher]

Re: A Suppress that constantly triggers so long as someone is in AOE (6E)

 

We try.

 

(You're welcome.)