Balancing the numbers

[Steve]

In preparation for my next Hero campaign, I've begun working on some of the basic build rules for characters. Towards that end, I've started some probability analysis of my build guidelines to try and optimize them for fairness. The campaign is a Ninja Hero setting, and I decided to use SPD as a benchmark to determine the power levels of other build items. SPD is designed to run in a range of 4-6.

 

I apologize for the formatting. I tried to do it in columns, but my columns seem to have vanished.

 

Here are my current build guidelines

SPD BasePts ActivePts Defense DEX OCV DCV

4 70 105 35 23 10 12

5 65 98 32 26 10 12

6 55 83 28 30 11 13

 

Active Points are determined with maximum Base Points and a +1/2 Advantage figured in. If a character wants to take more Advantages, they will have to reduce dice of effect.

 

I ran the numbers based on comparing the average damage a character of each SPD would generate on each of their phases, then subtracting the defenses of the defending character, then multiplying times the probability of hitting that character to get a feel for damage generated per turn.

 

Here is the average damage for each SPD compared to the defenses of each SPD point.

SPD AvgDmg vs SPD4 vs SPD5 vs SPD6

4 49 14 17 21

5 46 11 14 18

6 39 4 7 11

 

Here are the chances they have to hit each phase based on the OCV/DCV spreads.

SPD vs SPD4 vs SPD5 vs SPD6

4 37.50% 37.50% 25.93%

5 37.50% 37.50% 25.93%

6 50.00% 50.00% 37.50%

 

Here is the average damage per turn resulting from my above assumptions

SPD vs SPD4 vs SPD5 vs SPD6

4 21 26 22

5 21 26 23

6 12 21 25

 

If a character takes 25% Damage Reduction, the above defense maximums are reduced by 5.

SPD vs SPD4 vs SPD5 vs SPD6

4 21 25 20

5 23 27 22

6 20 27 27

 

If a character takes 50% Damage Reduction (the max allowed), the above defense maximums are reduced by 10.

SPD vs SPD4 vs SPD5 vs SPD6

4 18 20 16

5 20 23 18

6 21 26 24

 

I think I've got reasonably fair build guidelines now. I've jiggered with the numbers here and there, raising defenses, adjusting CVs and base points.

 

I'm posting this for peer review and to see if anyone has any suggestions for smoothing my build guidelines any more than I've already done.

[the fox]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Columns don't work because the forum interface only allows 1 space! To get proper columns I used a word processing program, then cut and paste.

 

Base Pts., Active Pts. difference; you might also consider a +1/4 difference; I've seen this before, and this was the value of the 'original' recommendation...

 

Determining average damage and all... Why should lower speeds do more damage?!? Set the top speed, and if you go lower than that, well, that's your problem, simple.

This way, you have a single set of guidelines for characters of a single power level.

 

Actual damage per turn is not a simple way to handicap high speed,; have you considered -3 AD (AD=PD+ED/2) or 'Max. Defense' per Speed point, since we're limiting defenses?

[Ice9]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Columns can be fixed by putting the whole section in a

 block, which will make it mono-spaced and preserve whitespace.  Like thus:[code]Red  Blue  Green
1    0     0

 

The guidelines look good for the most part. The OCV/DCV difference seems like it would result in a lot of missing, though.

[Steve]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Columns don't work because the forum interface only allows 1 space! To get proper columns I used a word processing program, then cut and paste.

 

Base Pts., Active Pts. difference; you might also consider a +1/4 difference; I've seen this before, and this was the value of the 'original' recommendation...

 

Determining average damage and all... Why should lower speeds do more damage?!? Set the top speed, and if you go lower than that, well, that's your problem, simple.

This way, you have a single set of guidelines for characters of a single power level.

 

Actual damage per turn is not a simple way to handicap high speed,; have you considered -3 AD (AD=PD+ED/2) or 'Max. Defense' per Speed point, since we're limiting defenses?

 

I've seen DC + SPD=X; perhaps you could make it DC + (SPDx2)=X, for anyone exceeding a certain speed?

 

I actually got the idea to use SPD as a benchmark for different power levels from Gestalt, and it has a really nice chart on the abilities of different levels of superheroes. That was also where I saw the idea of setting DCV higher than OCV. In previous campaigns, I've always gone with equal OCV and DCV maximums. That actually encourages higher defenses in my experiences. By making misses more likely, the damage output per turn is toned down, allowing for lower levels of defense, and fewer hits also seems more likely in a martial arts campaign.

 

SPD is what I am using to show three archetypes of martial artist: heavy fighters (SPD 4), medium fighters (SPD (5) and light fighters (SPD 6).

[the fox]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Keep it simple, you needn't go into average damage per turn to various defenses to show how your 5, 10 point altered DC's work.

Defenses are also arbitrarily altered by -3 and -4.

Do these changes follow a rule of x? probably not, since the value of change is different for 3 different values (max. CV, too; +1 or +0).

Like Gestalt, Hero/CHAMPIONS too uses SPD as a benchmark for different power levels! From 4th edition's max. SPD of 7 at 250+ pts., the following can be deduced;

a simple +1 max. SPD per 50 pts.

000+ are base 10 characters with some points switched around, eqivalent to 5th ed's base 8's with 25 additional points, like a pre-'min-maxed' base 10, '0 pt. person'.

000+ max. SPD 2

050+ max. SPD 3

100+ max. SPD 4 (reserve SPD 4 to Martial Artists only, along w/ top CV caps)

150+ max. SPD 5 (reserve SPD 5 to Martial Artists only, along w/ top CV caps)

200+ max. SPD 6 (reserve SPDs 5, 6 to Martial Artists, along w/ top two CV caps)

250+ max. SPD 7 (reserve SPDs 6, 7 to Martial Artists, along w/ top two CV caps)

[Steve]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Your analysis is interesting. I'd never looked at the example builds in that way before.

 

The reason why I did my analysis was to try and shake out any sweet spots that could be determined by looking at build limits in a more holistic fashion. I wasn't trying for a Rule of X exactly, just to determine how the numbers inter-related. Given a certain SPD, CV level, DC level and defense level, how does the damage output per turn stack up against a different mix of SPD, CV, etc. The Rule of X tries to break all that out into a single score. I jiggered with the various settings at each SPD score to try and get as close to similar damage output against the other two SPD scores I was using.

 

It was actually an interesting exercise. I've played Hero since the early 80s, and yet I've never tried to do an analysis of build assumptions like this.

 

I'm writing up my campaign ground rules and build guidelines and will be posting them for further comments. This was just a sample of my attempt to build from the ground up.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Why should lower speeds do more damage?!? Set the top speed, and if you go lower than that, well, that's your problem, simple.

This way, you have a single set of guidelines for characters of a single power level.

 

Fine if you want all of the PCs to look exactly the same.

 

SPD is the single most important stat in the game and if you want any variation in it, you'll have to incentivize lower than max SPD.

[the fox]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Sure, anyone who can slow down to 2/3rds or less of Max. SPD (SPD 4 if max. SPD 6) can claim maximum allowed defenses, AD equal to the def cap, usually DC x 2.5.

Each point of speed greater than that should show a reduction in defenses, -1/6th AD for SPD 5, -2/6 or -1/3 AD for SPD 6. AD=PD+ED/2.

[jtelson]

Re: Balancing the numbers

 

Fine if you want all of the PCs to look exactly the same.

 

SPD is the single most important stat in the game and if you want any variation in it, you'll have to incentivize lower than max SPD.

 

This has not been my experience - with the exception of 1 campaign I've always seen speed variation without incentivizing it.