Environment Fighters

[The Suave]

I have a current PC who is a "go in with nothing, take or find what you need to get out alive" type of guy, especially when it comes to combat. Now I've always had a little trouble modeling the character, but it's time to dole out experience and I'm revisiting the character sheet.

 

The whole point of the character's combat MO is that he goes in empty handed, and either disarms his foes to use their weapons against them, or he finds mundane items around and does silly amounts of damage with them (considering their nature). The way I had originally modeled this was by giving the character +d6 HTH Attack. Soon, it was mentioned: "So, I'm noticing that there's not really any reason for me to pick anything up, I can already do that much damage with my hands!"

I rethought the character, and decided to give him the second iteration of the ability: Deadly Blow. Now the way I've been running this, is that when he picks up an item (Lead Pipe, rolling pin, etc) and uses it in combat, he gets his 2d6 Deadly Blow instead of the item's usual 3d6 Normal Damage (or whatever it might be). I decided not to scale the DB's killing damage along with the Normal Damage, and instead just allow the character to do killing attacks with mundane items.

 

This has been working decently so far. I wanted to post and ask: Is there a better way of doing this?

 

I, in retrospect, realize that I could have limited the original HTH attack as OIF, but now that the character is doing killing damage with pipes, it's a bit hard to go back. The player really likes it, and I as the GM see it as pretty fittingly brutal/cool.

 

I am running with newer players to HERO but that hasn't really gotten in the way so far.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

Few things suck quite as much as having the Ref change rules and undercut your previously cool (as distinct from munchkin-y) character. If the 'Deadly Blow' thing gets to be a major issue, then sitting down with the Player and working something out is your best bet. If so, allow him to alter his character to deal with the new situation.

 

Maybe sweeten the deal by dropping him some extra points for his cooperation. Might even be able to get a scenario out of it - the character has a change of direction, sort of thing.

 

Otherwise, if you are both reasonably OK with it, and it doesn't overshadow the other PCs, then no problem. Do nothing. It doesn't make the guy bullet-proof, or means that he can kill a tank with one hit, or anything like that.

 

So, I suggest leaving it (at least for now), but make sure the other PCs aren't neglected as regards doing cool stuff.

 

****

 

Of course, if you want to be nasty, give the PCs an enemy who can do something similar.

[The Suave]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

No I like the fact that he does killing damage with mundane items, I was just wondering if there was a better way of doing it. Also, if I'm applying Deadly Blow to what basically amounts to "weapon of opportunity," what's the best way to convert the damage? Every example I can read is just adding the DB dice to the existing damage dice. My problem is that the existing damage dice are in Normal Damage (usually). Is there a clean way of using DB with normal-damage dealing weapons?

[Vulcan]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

I have a question: how does the character do xd6 with his bare hands, when he also does xd6 using strength (which determines how much damage he does with his bare hands) + HA? Is there martial arts mixed in there somewhere?

 

If so the solution is simple. Weapon Element: Non-Weapon Weapons or Object Of Opportunity

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

that sounds right

[The Suave]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

If he throws a punch, he gets his HtH damage as per usual. If he picks up an item or a weapon and swings at a guy, I've been replacing the damage from strength with the Deadly Blow damage that he paid for. He currently doesn't have any martial arts, an oversight that I shouldn't have missed.

 

Just feels sloppy, but it doesn't look like there's a good way to make it cleaner without rewriting the character. I guess I'll just run with it as-is.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

"uses art with stuff" should work with this character

[The Suave]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

Yep, still doesn't have martial arts.

[Markdoc]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

The simplest thing to do with the deadly blow thing is to convert the DC in ordinary damage to killing damage: that's not unreasonable - he knows how to hit where it hurts. Otherwise, it sounds like you are good to go.

 

Another possibility, though, is to replace his Deadly blow with a VPP allowing different powers, all of which require "OIF: suitable object of opportunity".

As a start, start him with an HKA and an HA. That means he needs sharp hurty things to do killing damage, blunt objects to use HA. He can use RKA and EB for thrown objects, Flash for gasoline or sand to throw in someone's eyes, an NND to use a hose to garrote someone, etc. The fact that it's a VPP will keep it from getting out of control, but it can be expanded with experience over time. At the same time, it will encourage him to "get inventive" with finding weaponry.

 

cheers, Mark

[The Suave]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

Now that's not a bad idea! As of now he has 20 points in Deadly Blow (+2d6, Weapon of Opportunity). What size VPP would I be looking at to keep from totally nerfing him? I've mentioned to him the possibility of adding Martial Arts in the future, but it might be beneficial to eventually save up and convert his DB dice into a VPP.

 

I toyed with the idea of taking the item/weapon's base normal damage and converting it to killing, then adding DB, but I was worried about it being a tad too powerful. I told him in the future, after playing with it a bit, I may start doing that. Honestly though a 3d6KA isn't unheard of, it is rather strong though. That's about what he throws when he shoots a gun though, because he also bought DB +1d6 (Firearms). I hadn't really considered using other powers with OIF attached, Flash and NND are great examples!

[Markdoc]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

I'd float this idea to him and see if he likes it. If so, it'd require a 30 point VPP to generate +2d6 KA which (in total) would cost him 30 + control cost of 7 (limited class of powers and OIF) for 37 points. What I'd do as GM is rather than change the character suddenly, simply let him save up the difference in points and then convert over.

 

However, on thinking about it, this is probably an unnecessarily complex way of doing things: he needs some sort of a power skill roll (a survival roll?) to change his powers in combat, when all he is actually doing is picking up something and whacking somebody with it, most of the time. A cheaper (and easier) route would be a multipower instead.

 

In that case it looks like:

Environmental edge: Multipower reserve - 30 points, all powers take OIF (objects of opportunity) real cost 20.

Slot 1 (u) +2d6 HKA. real cost 2.

 

So he would have the same combat ability as now (with one caveat - it now costs him END to use objects) at a cost of 2 extra points. The advantage is that he can then add those extra powers I suggested at 1 or 2 points a pop as he earns experience. Anytime he comes up with a nifty new idea, it costs him relatively little to add it to his repertoire. This is not too powerful (it's only a 30 point MP) but gives him a great deal of flexibility.

 

You can modify to taste - if he wants to add "requires a survival skill roll to activate" then he could (for example) increase the reserve to 45, get his 2d6 HKA at 0 END and keep the price down to 22.

 

cheers, Mark

[The Suave]

Re: Environment Fighters

 

I like the Multipower idea, and I'm going to ask my player if he would like that for an option. I think it will make it easier for him to decide where to put his experience, as he has a more defined outline of where his character's abilities are strongest and where they need beefing up.