Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

[randian]

Perfect except for the triple cost, that is. Is there any circumstance where you would require a Climbing roll, notwithstanding the fact that the character had Clinging?

[Matt Holck]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

on a loose dirt cliff side

[prestidigitator]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

Agreed. Also, Climbing is a Skill with a wide range of applications, whereas Clinging simply lets you stick to stuff. For example, a Climbing roll could easily be called for when examining a potential climbing route or belaying a rope to something for someone else to climb up. Clinging isn't going to tell you how secure a cliff side is or how to tie a rope.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

Depends on genre, to me.

 

In a realistic setting, I'd allow things like climbing gear or whatnot to give a bonus to climbing, not clinging. I would maybe allow clinging for certain gear - but only +5 or +10 STR, because no matter how firmly something grips another surface, your own body can only provide so much resistance.

 

While in a less realistic setting, clinging would only require a climbing roll if the surface was somehow anti-clinging I suppose.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

I would say that Clinging can do everything that Climbing can do (and more), except act as a complementary skill to a Perception roll to find out information about the thing being climbed, which could well be important in some cases.

 

Clinging is defined as allowing a character to cling to walls and sheer surfaces 'as if they were level'. Obviously 'clinging' can have a number of special effects, and that may determine whether, or how, it compares to Climbing. The literal definition of the power does not mention anything about Clinging to a sheer surface that is unstable. Let us look at a couple of examples:

 

1. The character wants to move up a wall of soft earth that would crumble if climbed (there are no handholds that would support the character's weight). I would allow someone with Clinging to move up the surface on the basis that, if the surface were level, they could walk on it - although that may depend on the sfx of the clinging. I would not allow a Climbing attempt unless the character has specialist equipment, like a rope he could fix in place or very long pitons. In this case a Climbing roll might be useful (perhaps as a complimentary roll to a Perception roll) to decide where to put your hands and feet - because if you dislodge part of the surface, the whole lot might come down, and you can't Cling to falling earth. I'd probably also require the Clinging character to move more slowly and cautiously then normal - but that is just me, I don't think the rules require it.

 

2. The character wants to move up a 'wall' made of thin glass. I would not allow Clinging to work here, or I would but it would break the glass as, if it were level, the character could not stand on it and have it support his weight. I would not allow a Climbing attempt unless the character had equipment that enabled him to avoid putting too much pressure on the surface (a rope or, perhaps, some way of spreading his mass over a greater area).

 

Of course a lot of types of clinging (and I'm looking at you, Spiderman) wouldn't work with the first example, because they involve adhesion to the surface as opposed to (for example) a personal perpendicular gravity field.

[randian]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

Can you Cling to a rope or a scaffold? Neither are "surfaces" in the lay sense (though they certainly are in the mathematical sense).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

Can you Cling to a rope or a scaffold? Neither are "surfaces" in the lay sense (though they certainly are in the mathematical sense).

 

This is my interpretation, not canon Hero:

 

I'd say you could cling to a rope for the purpose of KB resistance and being pulled away, but you could not 'run up' a rope because if it were a level surface then it would not support your weight. You could still use Clinging on it because it is a surface and you would have no chance of falling, but you would have to (effectively) climb it, and so the climbing rules and speeds would apply (except you will not fall as you do not need to make a roll).

 

I would allow you to run up a scaffold because it would support your weight if it were a level surface, but might require an acrobatics roll because it is such a narrow surface.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

I agree that as far as purely physical, equipment-less applications go, Clinging is a perfect substitute. However, I will by no means agree to narrow the scope of the Climbing Skill that far, or even close.

[Naanomi]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

One can drain or dispel Clinging, but (barring GM Caveat) cannot do so with skills like climbing... Hence Spider-Man probably has both, since he doesn't immediately fall to his death when his powers are disrupted or not working right.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Is Clinging a perfect substitute for Climbing?

 

Clinging is a 10 point power. You can move along a vertical surface at full speed and up it at half speed. You can use the power to stick to surfaces and you get some KB resistance.

 

Climbing is a 3 point DEX based skill, with an additional cost of +2 for +1 on the roll. Being DEX based, a direct cost comparison is difficult, but you could buy Climbing +3 for 9 points or Climbing +4 for 11 points, but Climbing can also be subject to roll modifiers. A climbing character has a move of 2m per phase at most and their OCV and DCV are at least halved if you are climbing anything like a vertical surface.

 

There's no real comparison between them: although Climbing is useful in some situations and would allow you to guide non climbers up a difficult cliff, for example, as a personal ability, Clinging is a far better investment in points and convenience - you can use it to practically run up the side of a building. Of course, this guy isn't far off being able to do that anyway...