Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

[TheSouljourner]

As I've said before, I'm running a 6e Terran Empire (Star Hero, heroic level) campaign. One of my players wants to be psionic and take telekinesis. Fine fine... and I've laid out power caps at 20 points per power, to try to keep psionics from taking over the genre.

 

Looking at telekinesis, you can get 12 STR for 18 points, or 6 STR with fine manipulation for 19 points. Now, in a supers game, I'd just suggest that he slap it in a multipower and save himself some points, as they're obviously just two facets of the same power.

 

TK Powers (Multipower, 20 point reserve)

2 - 12 STR TK

2 - 6 STR TK + FM

 

Cool cool.. but now he can add on powers for 2 points each... and that's what worries me in this heroic game. It becomes very easy for him to add powers (they need to be related, but still.. entirely new uses for a power for 2 points).

 

Also, how do you work point caps with multipowers... do you include just the reserve, or the cost of the powers as well? I know it's just a personal choice, but wondering what other people do.

 

Thanks for the help!

-Nate

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Now, in a supers game, I'd just suggest that he slap it in a multipower and save himself some points, as they're obviously just two facets of the same power.

 

TK Powers (Multipower, 20 point reserve)

2 - 12 STR TK

2 - 6 STR TK + FM

 

Cool cool.. but now he can add on powers for 2 points each... and that's what worries me in this heroic game. It becomes very easy for him to add powers (they need to be related, but still.. entirely new uses for a power for 2 points).

 

First, nothing in the rules requires that the powers in a Multipower be related in any way. It's a mechanic, not a special effect. Of course, with the above structure, he can only use one at a time.

 

It's tough to work with these in a vacuum. Will this character be able to buy a ton of 2 point TK powers in a Multipower while the other characters will be prohibited from using power frameworks? If so, this character has a pretty big advantage. If everyone can use frameworks, not so much. Perhaps, in that case, the ruling is that he can use the Multipower for these two powers, but any other powers must effectively be variations on this very tight theme. So perhaps he could add an Area Effect TK power, but he could not add a Telekinetic Punch (Blast) or a Telekinetic Defense Shield (Resistant Defense). If the usual rule is "no frameworks", it seems perfectly reasonable to restrict what can be done when you allow an exception.

 

IMO, what you are really doing here is allowing the character to eliminate the cost of having Fine Manipulation, as he gets the same STR he could otherwise have bought when he doesn't need fine manipulation. The only differences between the Multipower and allowing him to buy 12 STR with Fine Manipulation is that his Fine Manipulation will only have 6 STR, and he gets a huge cost discount.

 

Also' date=' how do you work point caps with multipowers... do you include just the reserve, or the cost of the powers as well? I know it's just a personal choice, but wondering what other people do.[/quote']

 

I view the powers in the Multipower for purposes of DC caps and similar, but I'm not really a hard cap kind of guy. I might allow someone with a very inflexible suite of powers to have higher DC's or higher AP's than someone with a lot of flexibility, from an MP or otherwise, but if I were allowing Multipowers to begin with, I'd base the point cap on the powers in the Multipower.

 

If a player wanted a 40 point Multipower with a suite of 20 AP slots so he can use two at a time, I would not consider that to violate your 20 AP maximum, for example.

[TheSouljourner]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

First' date=' nothing in the rules requires that the powers in a Multipower be related in any way. It's a mechanic, not a special effect. Of course, with the above structure, he can only use one at a time. [/quote']

 

Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that was required... but generally you wouldn't put completely unrelated powers into the same multipower. There has to be some in-game reason the user can't use both at the same time, otherwise the effect and the mechanics don't match.

 

It's tough to work with these in a vacuum. Will this character be able to buy a ton of 2 point TK powers in a Multipower while the other characters will be prohibited from using power frameworks? If so' date=' this character has a pretty big advantage. If everyone can use frameworks, not so much. [/quote']

 

My assumption was that if I allowed one character to use a multipower, that I'd have to give everyone access to them (subject to approval of course). Just wondering if anyone else had experience with this in a heroic campaign. In a superhero campaign, I'd have no qualms, since pretty much the sky's the limit. But I have less experience in Heroic campaigns.

 

Perhaps, in that case, the ruling is that he can use the Multipower for these two powers, but any other powers must effectively be variations on this very tight theme. So perhaps he could add an Area Effect TK power, but he could not add a Telekinetic Punch (Blast) or a Telekinetic Defense Shield (Resistant Defense). If the usual rule is "no frameworks", it seems perfectly reasonable to restrict what can be done when you allow an exception.

 

IMO, what you are really doing here is allowing the character to eliminate the cost of having Fine Manipulation, as he gets the same STR he could otherwise have bought when he doesn't need fine manipulation. The only differences between the Multipower and allowing him to buy 12 STR with Fine Manipulation is that his Fine Manipulation will only have 6 STR, and he gets a huge cost discount.

 

So, about the huge discount.... I don't think it is actually that big.

 

If he had simply TK 12 STR + FM, that would be 28 points. He's spending 24 (it could actually be 23, since he only really needs a 19 point reserve).

 

So, it's a 5 point savings for only being able to use FM with STR 6. While fine manipulation probably often doesn't require a lot of strength, I would say that sometimes it does (picking up a rifle with a STR min and firing it), so it is a limitation worth a few points, at least (especially since 6 STR is quite low).

 

I think I've convinced myself that allowing very tightly related powers in a multipower is ok. I like your example of not allowing a blast or shield in the same multipower, since they're significantly different than the TK power.

 

 

I view the powers in the Multipower for purposes of DC caps and similar, but I'm not really a hard cap kind of guy. I might allow someone with a very inflexible suite of powers to have higher DC's or higher AP's than someone with a lot of flexibility, from an MP or otherwise, but if I were allowing Multipowers to begin with, I'd base the point cap on the powers in the Multipower.

 

If a player wanted a 40 point Multipower with a suite of 20 AP slots so he can use two at a time, I would not consider that to violate your 20 AP maximum, for example.

 

Ahh, good point about the 40 point MP with 20 point powers in it. I agree, that shouldn't count as going over the cap... any more than having two 20 point powers outside the multipower would.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Psionic Multipowers have never once disrupted a Heroic game I've been in. Even the current Space Opera game I play in.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

So, about the huge discount.... I don't think it is actually that big.

 

If he had simply TK 12 STR + FM, that would be 28 points. He's spending 24 (it could actually be 23, since he only really needs a 19 point reserve).

 

So, it's a 5 point savings for only being able to use FM with STR 6. While fine manipulation probably often doesn't require a lot of strength, I would say that sometimes it does (picking up a rifle with a STR min and firing it), so it is a limitation worth a few points, at least (especially since 6 STR is quite low).

 

At the same time, 5/28 is about a 17.9% discount. I don't think that's insignificant. A 5 point savings buys a skill with +1 to the roll, a good suite of WF's or 5 points of Mental Defense, which I expect would be significant in the game.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

As lomg as you stick to a reasonably controllable active point cap there should be no problem with allowing psionic multipowers. Just sit down with the players and let them know that their multipower has to stay focussed on a theme (like tk) and what this will do is allow your player characters to develop a lot of different tricks and techniques for their chosen discipline. That is a lotharder to do without using a multi power.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

At the same time' date=' 5/28 is about a 17.9% discount. I don't think that's insignificant. A 5 point savings buys a skill with +1 to the roll, a good suite of WF's or 5 points of Mental Defense, which I expect would be significant in the game.[/quote']

 

On the other paw, that discount comes with the drawback that he can't use all those powers at the same time. I can't personally see any reason to forbid it.

[TheSouljourner]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Thanks, guys. Ghost-Angel, especially good to hear that it works in practice as well as in theory.

[Alibear]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Never had a problem with MPs, or Psionics in a Heroic level game.

[Checkmate]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Hugh is right, it is hard to answer these types of questions in a vacuum. If you allow this type of framework, you will change the feel of the game. It becomes a much higher powered. If that's the feel you want, cool you got it. If you were trying for a Conan-type Sword and Sorcery game, you may want to reevaluate your thinking.

 

The other question I would have is: Are all players allowed MP's or just the Psionic ones? For example, if I wanted to be a quick shot could I add a naked autofire advantage, or other things to make me a better fighter? There might be some disparity if you don't allow it in both cases, especially when XP rolls around.

[TheSouljourner]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

So, what I want is a blanket rule that can be applied across all characters. I definitely do not want "Psions may do X, the rest of you may not". I also do not want the rule to escalate the power level in the campaign, rather I would like to use it to allow greater variety without needing to give a lot of additional points.

 

The rule I am going to start with is that powers in a multipower must represent the same in-game ability and must be very tightly coupled game elements. So, you can't put mind control and flight in the same multipower, because there's no logical connection between the abilities in-game and the powers are vastly dissimilar. However, like the example I gave, both powers are TK and keep the player's power under the 20 active point cap, without requiring he double up on TK powers just so he can have both a reasonable STR and fine manipulation.

 

We'll see what comes of it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

What you might want to do is come up with a series of Psionic SFX and have each one it's own MP Entity, if a character wants two kinds of Psionic Abilities they end up with two MPs. The benefit is they can use abilities from both simultaneously (Telekinetic Flight and Telepathic Mind Control at once). Paying for what they get, really.

[TheSouljourner]

Re: Should I allow Multipowers in a heroic game?

 

Yep, I expect people will have multiple MPs eventually, and that's fine with me. I definitely do not want one mega MP, that would be too much of a cost break. I'll make pregen powers if need be, but I'd rather let the players come up with them... it's fun for them and they might think of things I don't.