How Do i build this....

[AnotherSkip]

Okies here is the plan.

Fh campaign

 

I see a static spell (say an illusion.)

I like the spell So i decide to take it with me.

I visualise it as taking the illusion and folding up the spell and more or less pocketing it (perhaps storing it in my head so I can "cast" it later).

 

now then how would you build this?

 

I am looking at a Major transform (spell into transportable spell) and i dont mind standing around for an hour or so... so the cumulative advantage would help keep the cost down. And the spell would automatically and easily change back when it is "cast' from my storing place.

Do I need the expanded group advantage?

Im not really worried about limitations, i have plenty to choose from since this is "magic".

 

THe primary concern is making sure it is worded correctly and that it is built properly enough so that it will get a fair amount.

 

hmmmm this could be it's own type of magic.....

 

perhaps a way to build a "spell vampire"?

[Talon]

I'm not sure I would let Transform create a spell effect -- especially since with Cumulative you could create god-awful effects.

 

I would almost certainly require a VPP to do this, limited so that you could only create spells which you already had "folded up". Then give the character a Dispel which works to the Active Limit of the VPP to represent the folding process.

 

Yes, this mean you are limited by Active Points, but IMO that's a good thing.

[cutsleeve]

If its just one particular spell just create it with the delayed effect advantage.

 

If it can be many spells and you dont want to built delayed effect on them all or its in a variable powerpool or such.

Try something funky like a delayed effect naked advantage and id say maybe slap on a variable special effect advantage on to it to just to make sure "all Magic" is covered.

 

Something like this.

Delayed Effect (up to 60 active points) base cost: 15 with variable special effect (effects all magic) +1/4 active cost: 18

Real cost: 18

 

and remeber naked power advantaged cost endurance so the cost might be higher if you want it reduced endurance.

[cutsleeve]

oh wait misread it do you mean someone elses spell.

 

If thats the case then just buy a variable power pool with maybe a disadvantage saying. -1/2 only to duplicate spells seen.

[austenandrews]

I agree with Talon. That's an extreme stretch for Transform, and quite abusable. A VPP is the most obvious general solution. Maybe have an available Transfer, if you want to "steal" the spell from someone else?

 

If you're determined to use Transform, though, you'll have to decide what "stat" you're rolling against (since in general a spell effect has no BODY). If it were my game, I'd probably say AP/5 (so you'd need to roll 2*AP/5 to complete the Transform). Then I might require that the Transform add UBO to the spell, allowing you to "steal" it for your own use.

 

You'll also have to decide on issues such as whether the original spellcaster can still influence the effect, etc.

 

-AA

[AnotherSkip]

Ewwwwwww!!!

 

is all i have to say on the idea buying a VPP to cover this power concept. there are a few other details you dont know, but as far as the spell sucking mage idea goes the suggestions are a good solution. but not what i was looking for. I also would not be specifically be looking for this character to swipe spells that were not a part of the sfx for the VPP I have (the gm allows things that are techniaclly "broken" in the game but it makes no difference so long as the sfx is kept. that line he keeps as hard nosed as anyone can be. an example would be a 15 point VPP "housing" Clairvoyance, Pre and Post, with Megascaled advantage! it fits my sfx so i can do it, on the other hand I could not build a 2d6 RKA AOE megascaled area because it does not fit my SFX.)

 

Edit: erm im _not_ "creating" a spell, i am swiping a permament creation of someone elses. I dont see any problem with a magic transform being used as to take a stone statue and turn it into a pocket rock. Irregardless of size or value how is this different?

 

im certainly _not_ talking about ganiing the power for myself permamently, rather closer to a snigle charge.

 

Actually I think a few more details about the specific situation I have in mind is necessary.

 

1 I have a VPPin the game. it is piddly though, 24 active points.

 

intially I ran across the spell as a static defense, it looks like the spell I have in mind as a target is Independant. and thusly I was thinking of it as an object not necessarily a power. the difference being that the item is fairly unique, independant and sort of a static creation in the fabric of the mystical spell energies of the universe. I have good reason to believe I may have killed the caster.

 

 

as a note I would find it pretty ridiculous to build a VPP to get one spell.

[austenandrews]

Ah. I, and seemingly the others, assumed you wanted a generic spell to create that effect anytime. If you're specifically targeting a single Independent spell, then it's probably a GM call. Normally an "effect" (an Image, a Change Environment, etc.) has no "handle" with which others can manipulate it. If that's all you're looking for, if I were your GM I'd consider allowing you to "buy off" the Independent Limitation (maybe with an Aid, or perhaps with Transform, as you suggested; either way, it should fit in your "piddly" VPP ).

 

However, if I were your GM, I'd question what your real goal is. If you're just trying to manipulate a large spell using a small VPP, I might not even allow it. If I did, I'd make it a very risky venture, essentially handling a power level beyond your ordinary capacity. Be on the lookout for Side Effects.

 

-AA

[Pteryx]

If you're talking about knowledge of spells on the whole, I'd say you want spells in your game to be Independent. If you're asking about "stealing" specific castings... that's a bit harder. I'm inclined to say that would be a bizzare kind of Fuel Charge. That's my best guess, anyway... -- Pteryx

[AnotherSkip]

Im rather inclined to think that what I am trying to do is simply utilse the limitation inherent in Independant, rather than breaking any rules per say.

 

after all if something is independant then since part of the limitation is that it can be stolen then it should be stealable. then I am just helping the GM make sure the guy who built the spell knows that those limitations are real limitations, and not something to be trifled with.....

 

 

 

 

hmmm here is a something different track.

 

If we think that there either is or is not some way (we are questioning) of taking a semi permament manifest spell that is not an item. Then is it a question of Metarules (ie something to look for in the basic book) Genre information, or Campaign information or Gm la la land?

[Farkling]

I think it is in GM lala land.

However, speakiing in terms of MetaRules...I will think out loud here.

 

Let us suppose there is a permanent enchantment on a temple;

 

Change Environment, 1", MegaScale 1"=1 Temple (+1/2), causes an aura of unease and fear. -2 to EGO rolls.

 

Now, this effect has been cast, and placed. HOW it is cast or hung is a GM preference, however, common construction resembles::

 

Immobile, Independent, Persistent, 0 END.

 

Okay...now WHAT it is "hung" on is up to the GM (the temple, ley lines, the Pattern, the Logrhus, existence, the grounds, dragon paths, yadda yadda).

 

And he wishes to "fold up" the effect, and transport it elsewhere, where the spell effect will be re-established. Hmmm.

 

Let us postulate then. He wishes to temporarily remove the immobile limitation, AND the spell will cease to function until the limitation is restored.

 

That sounds like Transform to me...it changes one thing into something else temporarily...however, he wants to transform something that has no BODY score, so the mechanics break down. It is also not fundamentally changed, it is just "fodled up" until reactivated.

 

I think it certainly needs to include a limitation (-0 or not) for how LONG the spell can be stored until used...otherwise he can simply absorb them indefinitely. THAT would be Dispel.

Dispel linked to a VPP is a mechanics way to go...but I think there is actually something there to be transformed...much like the frequently maligned Spirit rules...the spell has SOME sort of existence or hook of metaphysical solidity.

 

A) Posit :: Transform CAN affect an Independent limitation power, since it is technically an object under that circumstance.

If the spell was attached to a focus, the FOCUS could be transformed...why can't a hung spell be takn off the hanger and hung up somewhere else? A cost of some kind could be associated with maintaining the "hanging" while it is being transported...

 

The caster of the Independent spell has to be affected by the Transform to "swipe" the power...this is counterintuitive to the definition of Independent.

 

C) A VPP is necessary to swipe the spell...if it is too big, then the VPP mirrors it to the best of the player ability. A Dispel is woul dbe necessary also, to make it go away. Perhaps a Transfer from the effect to the VPP.

 

D) Transfer, cumulative could be handwaved by a GM to allow the character to transfer a "power" he does not actually have...perhaps Tranfer should be allowed to transfer ("steal") an independent power in this circumstance. This has a built in fade also, giving a mechanic for spell exhaustion or failure, and it also includes a maximum power level, following the "effective limits." The Transfer can include a Side Effect for "transferred power may only be USED once" or "fades immediately after use" (the unfolding of the spell)

 

Those are all my thoughts....let's have some extra critiques from the other genre fiends.

 

My personal preference a the start was for option A...as a GM, and as I ponder this, I think option D would work better in a campaign...