Help with the Zombie template

[Drohem]

I'm looking at the Zombie template from The HERO System Bestiary (6E; p. 296) and would like some help clarifying its total PD/ED and its Powers. If I am understanding it correctly, then it should have the following defenses against all attacks:

 

12 PD (8 rPD)

4 ED (2 rED)

 

If the attack is a slashing attack, then its defenses would look like this:

 

14 PD (8 rPD)

4 ED (2 rED)

 

If the attack is a piercing attack, then its defenses would look like this:

 

16 PD (8 rPD)

4 ED (2 rED)

 

Did I get this down correctly?

 

Thank you for your time and energy in assisting me grok this correctly.

[Christopher]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

I don't have the template and thus can't answer your main question, but considering the name of the template one note anyway:

If it has any version of "Takes No Stun" Power (45 or 60 Points), then it starts with a ED/PD of 1 and has to pay three times as much for ED, PD and ohter defensive powers. It would also get no benefit (or at least no relevant) from Non-Resistant defenses (all they do is stop normal Damage Body, and they are irrelevantly low anyway).

[Lucius]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

I don't have the template and thus can't answer your main question, but considering the name of the template one note anyway:

If it has any version of "Takes No Stun" Power (45 or 60 Points), then it starts with a ED/PD of 1 and has to pay three times as much for ED, PD and ohter defensive powers. It would also get no benefit (or at least no relevant) from Non-Resistant defenses (all they do is stop normal Damage Body, and they are irrelevantly low anyway).

 

Not necessarily. One could build a zombie with lots of nonresistant defense that could be easily cut up or shot up but very hard to stop otherwise.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary calls up a little good angel

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

I don't have the template and thus can't answer your main question, but considering the name of the template one note anyway:

If it has any version of "Takes No Stun" Power (45 or 60 Points), then it starts with a ED/PD of 1 and has to pay three times as much for ED, PD and other defensive powers. It would also get no benefit (or at least no relevant) from Non-Resistant defenses (all they do is stop normal Damage Body, and they are irrelevantly low anyway).

 

Well, thank you. That solves part of the mystery for me.

 

That helps me understand why the point cost for its base PD and base ED seemed off to me and I couldn't grok how the costs were derived. In the book it is listed as:

 

[9] - 4 PD

[3] - 2 ED

 

OK, so the relevant powers for defense are:

 

[4] - Undead Body: +2 PD: Only Protects Against Slashing Or Piercing Attacks (-½)

[3] - Undead Body: +2 PD: Only Protects Against Piercing Attacks (-1)

[15] - Undead Body: Resistant (+½) for 8 PD/2 ED

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

OK, so the triple cost thing explains the derived point costs for its Powers as well; it just hit me, LOL!

 

So, discounting normal PD/ED since it's moot, then would the Resistant PD just cover its extra PD? In other words, its Resistant PD/ED looks like this:

 

4 PD vs. non-slashing and non-piercing attacks

6 PD vs. slashing attacks

8 PD vs. piercing attacks

2 ED vs. all attacks

[Ice9]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

That looks correct.

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

That looks correct.

 

Cool, and thanks!

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

OK, and now I would like to ask some advice from the HERO erudites here.

 

I am planning to throw a zombie king and queen at my group of players as they explore their burial crypt. There are three PCs in the group that are 150/50 heroes, and there are four NPCs that are Skilled Normals. The group is lightly armed and armored with a majority of the group using weapons that are unfamiliar. I was planning that the dead king was buried in a suit of magical scale mail (Banded Mail) and with a magical mace, while the queen is buried in just clothing will be using her zombie punches for attacks. Now, the zombie template looks pretty tough as is with its resistant PD and 20 STR, and without optional claw and bite attacks. I don't think that I will make the scale mail and mace powerful magic items by adding PD, OCV, or DC. I think that I will just make the magic armor and weapon tougher by adding BODY and Defense, and perhaps make them weigh less, to simulate their magical qualities.

 

However, even with making the magic armor's and weapon's qualities non-combat orientated (i.e., no direct bonus), do you think that the party can handle the zombie king and queen? Or will these two zombies be too tough to handle for the party? The zombie king will be pretty darn tough in scale armor with its naturally resistant PD; especially against piercing attacks (14 PD).

 

Also, the party will have no real escape from the crypt until they destroy the zombie king and queen so they cannot kite or run away if things get tough. I am thinking of implementing the brain-shot optional rule where even 1 BODY damage to the brain (Hit Location-3) instantly destroys the zombie, but will this even be enough to give the party some chance against them?

[Christopher]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

One interesting fact regarind "Takes no STUN" and Armor Protection:

"If an Automaton with the Takes No STUN Power obtains defensive equipment (such as a suit of armor), he must divide the PD/ED that equipment provides by 3, the same way he does for a defensive ability he purchases with Character Points." APG II 36. So your Zomby would only get a +2 PD from the +6 PD Armor.

The Tirppling rule is general. It's basically a part of the cost for "not Stun". Also when looking if an enemy fits into a game, you should tripple their PD/ED before comparing it to the campaign guidelines. So "Takes no STUN" + 12 rPD equals 36 PD (12 Resistant) for purpose of determining the relative strenghts/combat maxima.

 

Brain shot rule would require a very good OCV roll or setup (tripping/entangle + followup). You say your adventures use weapons they are unfamiliar with, so that is at least a -1 to-3 OCV for all of them. And every -1 is roughly -10% chance to hit in Hero.

Anotehr thing is that those automatosn can't be beaten with normal damage weapons. You need Strong Killing Attack Weapons, preferebly ones that don't go against their strongest defense.

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

One interesting fact regarind "Takes no STUN" and Armor Protection:

"If an Automaton with the Takes No STUN Power obtains defensive equipment (such as a suit of armor), he must divide the PD/ED that equipment provides by 3, the same way he does for a defensive ability he purchases with Character Points." APG II 36. So your Zomby would only get a +2 PD from the +6 PD Armor.

The Tirppling rule is general. It's basically a part of the cost for "not Stun". Also when looking if an enemy fits into a game, you should tripple their PD/ED before comparing it to the campaign guidelines. So "Takes no STUN" + 12 rPD equals 36 PD (12 Resistant) for purpose of determining the relative strenghts/combat maxima.

 

Brain shot rule would require a very good OCV roll or setup (tripping/entangle + followup). You say your adventures use weapons they are unfamiliar with, so that is at least a -1 to-3 OCV for all of them. And every -1 is roughly -10% chance to hit in Hero.

Anotehr thing is that those automatosn can't be beaten with normal damage weapons. You need Strong Killing Attack Weapons, preferebly ones that don't go against their strongest defense.

 

Well, that is interesting indeed! Thank you for pointing this out to me.

 

I didn't see that when I read the Takes no STUN power in the 6E1 book- and now I know why; it isn't there! LOL! Luckily, I have the APG2 as well. Now, this makes the zombie a viable adversary for this group, I think, since it will only have the following defenses:

 

6 PD vs. non-slashing and non-piercing attacks

8 PD vs. slashing attacks

10 PD vs. piercing attacks

4 ED vs. all attacks

 

It will, by no means, be easy for the group, but I think that with this ruling for automatons with armor will put it in the realm of possibility for this group. They will have Killing Damage weapons, and not all the characters in the group will be using an unfamiliar weapon; just some of them (i.e., NPC Normals).

 

I don't honestly expect anyone to target the brain in particular, but will use that rule in case anyone gets a lucky random Hit Location roll. Also, I plan to drop the zombies' STR down to 10 the first time it takes any BODY damage as per the Takes no STUN rules in 6E1.

 

So, with the above considered, am I still sending my party of PCs/NPCs into a meat-grinder?

[Christopher]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

I didn't see that when I read the Takes no STUN power in the 6E1 book- and now I know why; it isn't there! LOL! Luckily' date=' I have the APG2 as well. Now, this makes the zombie a viable adversary for this group, I think, since it will only have the following defenses[/quote']

For me it is in 6E1 293.

 

That they only have the cheap version of No Stun and thus loose power when hit makeas the game a lot easier for the players. Normal "attirition" will destroy them fast enough.

 

If they can beet it depends mostly on what they have on the attack side. A 2d6 killing Piecing Attack wouldn't even bother either of the zombies. While a 2d6 killing non-piercing/non-slashing attack would destroy them in a few hits.

[Drohem]

Re: Help with the Zombie template

 

For me it is in 6E1 293.

 

Oops, sorry, I didn't mean that the power Takes no STUN wasn't in the 6E1 book, but, rather, that the part about armor being cut in a 1/3 isn't in the 6E1 book and is only in the APG2 book.