How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

[Paradox]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

Sorry its took me so long to respond to this. I think I found a workable package that

I like. This is the package that I put together for the Vampire. Its based around

the idea that a fledging vampire isn't the powerhouse that an old vampire would be.

The "Creation," is based in ritual. It must be taught to vamprire by another. The

cost and disadvantage points balance out and the character can add other vampire

powers with XP if they wish. The only other thing that they would have to buy off is

Normal Characteristics Max.

 

 

Val Char Cost

14 STR 4

15 DEX 15

12 CON 4

12 BODY 4

10 INT 0

12 EGO 4

15 PRE 5

10 COM 0

 

5 PD 2

4 ED 2

2 SPD 0

5 REC 0

24 END 0

25 STUN 0

 

6" RUN 0

2" SWIM 0

2 1/2" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 40

 

Cost Power

4 Undead Resilience: Damage Resistance (6 PD/6 ED) (6 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2)

5 Fangs (Retractable): Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 point (1/2d6 w/STR)

10 Regeneration 1 BODY, Can Heal Limbs, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (45 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Hour (-2 1/4), Does Not Work On Some Damage Faith, Sunlight, Fire (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)

6 Vampire Senses: +2 PER with all Sense Groups

15 Undeath: Life Support (Longevity: Immortal; Self-Contained Breathing)

Powers Cost: 40

 

Total Character Cost: 80

 

Pts. Disadvantage

5 Dependence: Blood Weakness: -3 To Characteristic Rolls and related rolls per time increment (Common; 6 Hours)

10 Soulless: (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)

10 Subject to Faith

20 Susceptibility: Sunlight 2d6 damage per Turn (Common)

25 Physical Limitation: Subject to Commands of the Sire (All the Time; Fully Impairing)

5 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x STUN Faith Blessed Attacks (Uncommon)

5 Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x BODY Faith Blessed Attacks (Uncommon)

Disadvantage Points: 80

 

I'm not sure I would allow a PC to play an Abomination (Vampire/Lycanthrope). I've played with them in

the WOD by White Wolf, but I don't think I'd allow it for a PC. That being said. Lycanthropy isn't a disease

in my game. It is an inherited trait that displays itself somewhere around puberty, normally.

I don't have my Lycanthrope package deal with me but it is built as a multiform with three different forms.

Animal(can be "Dire" sized), Crinos, and human. The Crinos form is the primary form and the human and animal

form are both built off 150 points.

 

I will have to apologize to everyone for not responding to everyone's points and advice individually like I would. Work takes up more than its share of my time, so I don't get online a lot. But thanks for all your responses.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

Sorry its took me so long to respond to this. I think I found a workable package that

I like. This is the package that I put together for the Vampire. Its based around

the idea that a fledging vampire isn't the powerhouse that an old vampire would be.

The "Creation," is based in ritual. It must be taught to vamprire by another. The

cost and disadvantage points balance out and the character can add other vampire

powers with XP if they wish. The only other thing that they would have to buy off is

Normal Characteristics Max.

 

Are you using 4E or earlier? Again, if using 5E or 6E the Powers and Disadvantages don't "cancel out" and everything positive has to be paid for. Otherwise you are just giving one player a lot more points than everyone else. I know some people will say that the extra Disadvantages make up for that, but then why shouldn't everyone be able to take 80 more points in Disads to buy more cool stuff themselves?

 

If you aren't concerned about points I guess that doesn't really matter (but then why worry so much about the points matching?) and if you are concerned about points then, IMO, having someone with 80 extra ones is going to be an issue at some point.

[psyber624]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

Honestly, IMO 80 pts for a package deal is really really high. In a 400 pt game thats 20% of the total points they have to spend that you are TELLING your player they have to spend this way, or that character is 20% more effective than any character without this package.

 

Its your game of course, but honestly i think you would be better off letting your players decide whether they want to be a vampire or not, and then building their character how they WANT their Vampire character to look, your "package deal" should be a really small set of abilities/complications that you basically "require" anyone playing a vampire in your campaign to have, and let them decide what the rest looks like. This would be part of their base points that they build the character out of, not points they get to tack on for free.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

So instead we say that Skill X is worth zero points because it never comes up in the game

 

Sure. That's gaining nothing for nothing - that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

It's a natural corrolary to the fact that a complication/disadvantage is worth zero points if it will never come up in the game.

[Paradox]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

Of course at the end of the day, its a game. If you and your players want to play in a world like this then you can simply allow it to work like that. The new 6E rulebooks mention this sort of thing REPEATEDLY. You, as GM, just state that in your game players may become more powerful through gaining one of these templates (as they are now known). I highly recommend you make sure your players are on board with this kind of a game, but if they are it sounds like it might be alot of fun, just make sure that a character that gains such power doesn't totally overshadow the rest of your players.

 

I'm not using this package for the players right now. But I am trying to put together the elements for the future. IE. if at some point a PC would like to get embraced, i'd like to have the system figured out. Or that NPC that has been meeting with the PC gets turned, how does he appear when the meet him/her next. I want a playable package that should certain events happen a character can shift forms for lycanthropy, become embraced, or learn magic. The Were-forms and the magic were easier for me to complete. It was the vampire package that I was reaching out for advise on. I've had a couple individuals flat out say that it was to weak for a vampire.

 

Are you using 4E or earlier? Again, if using 5E or 6E the Powers and Disadvantages don't "cancel out" and everything positive has to be paid for. Otherwise you are just giving one player a lot more points than everyone else. I know some people will say that the extra Disadvantages make up for that, but then why shouldn't everyone be able to take 80 more points in Disads to buy more cool stuff themselves?

 

If you aren't concerned about points I guess that doesn't really matter (but then why worry so much about the points matching?) and if you are concerned about points then, IMO, having someone with 80 extra ones is going to be an issue at some point.

 

I'm not concerned about the point total of the characters so much as I am a believable concept. I've run games where the characters are all created with the same base of points but with different amounts of xp awarded for age and good backgrounds. The extra 80 points are alot. Especially in the level of game I'm running, but I don't think that it is an unbelievable number for a fledgling vampire.

 

I always try to run a game for with the ideas of concepts and backgrounds then to strict point totals. So far my players enjoy it. I am however always looking for ideas and critiques from other storytellers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

As I see it, this could either be vastly overpowered or character suicide. On the one hand, he gets 80 more CP, including some pretty useful abilities. On the other hand, he's under the direct domination of his Sire (so that could be as extreme a result as "he's basically an NPC", or could just be brushed off - but in the latter case, that complication isn't really worth 25 points). Will he be allowed to conveniently avoid any need to go out in sunlight, or will he routinely need to withdraw from the group (for example, stay too far back to participate in combat) or suffer damage every turn? What will the consequences of blood consumption every 6 hours be? Will this be easily enabled, or will the character routinely be operating at significant penalties because he has been unable to locate blood in an acceptable form (ie he doesn't just get to drain whoever he comes across with no repercussions)?

 

No, it's not a very powerful vampire. Very powerful vampires cost more than 80 points. You want a character who can turn into a bat, a wolf or mist, who is much stronger and faster and who can Turn others? Shell out some XP to grow into your new vampiric nature. Or agree to a "radiation accident" - lose a bunch of your old abilities in the turning process, and use these points to build up your nascent vampiric abilities. Of course, to me this would also mean a lot of in-game vampires would have similar stats, with the above being the character sheet for a basic mook vampire. If they never encounter a vampire with STR less than 30, +4 seems pretty limited by comparison.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

I'm not concerned about the point total of the characters so much as I am a believable concept. I've run games where the characters are all created with the same base of points but with different amounts of xp awarded for age and good backgrounds. The extra 80 points are alot. Especially in the level of game I'm running, but I don't think that it is an unbelievable number for a fledgling vampire.

 

I always try to run a game for with the ideas of concepts and backgrounds then to strict point totals. So far my players enjoy it. I am however always looking for ideas and critiques from other storytellers.

 

And that's cool. If that's how your group rolls (so to speak) then good for you. But then why obsess about having the package deal points be equal?

[Portland Barbie]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

First, referring to the templates as package deals, implies that he's had a working knowledge of HERO for at least a few editions (or has someone who does in his gaming group).

 

Second, I would lessen, or at least build a "post-creation" template to apply the core mechanics, i.e. the ones that would define a character as a vampire, to the character, and if the points gained from Complications is an issue, work towards balancing them out with the abilities becoming a vampire would give. The rest would be up to an individual player.

 

Lastly, I just want to point out that judging from terms used in the OP, and my own personal knowledge, a lot of the vampire/werewolf fluff is being drawn from WoD, and that the OP has had a lot of experience running that system. Which brings up a good argument for the existing posted template. In V:tM, being embraced does not add to any set Attributes, but gives a few extra "dots" to be placed where the player wants the character to have them. It also allows the player to determine what (from a limited selection) of vampire abilities (Disciplines) he gains. I would restructure the template to allow this freedom as well (not adding to specific Stats, but allowing for a set number of points to be applied as the player wishes to the character's stats.

[Paradox]

Re: How do you work gaining Package Deals during game?

 

Lastly, I just want to point out that judging from terms used in the OP, and my own personal knowledge, a lot of the vampire/werewolf fluff is being drawn from WoD, and that the OP has had a lot of experience running that system. Which brings up a good argument for the existing posted template. In V:tM, being embraced does not add to any set Attributes, but gives a few extra "dots" to be placed where the player wants the character to have them. It also allows the player to determine what (from a limited selection) of vampire abilities (Disciplines) he gains. I would restructure the template to allow this freedom as well (not adding to specific Stats, but allowing for a set number of points to be applied as the player wishes to the character's stats.

 

Thanks Troile

I've been running hero on and off since 4th edition. I haven't gotten into 6th yet. I don't want to shell out the cash for them yet.

 

As for the theme of the game. Yes, I pulled a lot of inspiration from WOD for both Vampires and Lycanthrops. The package deal covers just what every base vampire get receives. The idea being that the player doesn't have to dish out more points for the base package. Any powers or Disciplines they want would have to be covered in xp. That is the reason for the points being even. The play may use xp to buy of some of the disadvantages that are not core to the race and they may buy any powers they wish within a set group.

 

I'm already running the game and as of yet don't have any players interested in playing vampires or lycans. So far things are going well.

 

Are there any more ideas out there?